Will Edwin Jackson help?

[DirtyBird]

12 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I'm about ready to pull the plug on the Edwin Jackson experiment.  He looks done.  Or put him on mop up duty if Ubaldo gets jettisoned. 

"about ready"?

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

53 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

"about ready"?

I don't Ubaldo and Edwin both getting moved tomorrow, and with O'Day on the DL they probably are safe for at least one more outing.  Sigh. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Just now, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I don't Ubaldo and Edwin both getting moved tomorrow, and with O'Day on the DL they probably are safe for at least one more outing.  Sigh. 

Ugh, that should read:  I don't see Ubaldo and Edwin both getting moved tomorrow.

[InsideCoroner]

May the words "and Edwin Jackson coming in to this one-run game" never be spoken again unless it's for another team. 

[thezeroes]

1 hour ago, Roy Firestone said:

How much worse would Tanner Scott be?

Think of the Jake Arrieta outcome of force feeding pitchers that are not ready for the show.  That is how bad it could be.

Run them out of options is one case to be made.

Run up their Service Clock so they can be free gents when in their prime could be another outcome.

Have them get reinjured and not be ready to pitch again in two years and not effective until the third year could be another outcome while using up options and service time.  Not to mention cluttering the Forty Man Roster every winter.

Have them pitch well and allow this years team to get a play-in wild card spot only to lose in the first game.

I can think of several more but yu get the point of what different reason for not adding/bringing up those that are not ready for prime time when still young pitchers.

 

[thezeroes]

Just now, Roy Firestone said:

Im curious as to how Scott's stuff plays in MLB.

Curiosity killed the cat.  I would prefer to keep his service clock in check until the need to open up that can of worms.  He may very well be effective in low pressure situations but then all the fans would deem him the next closer and want to throw him into a role he is not ready for. 

Several dozen pages back, posters could see no need for several of the bullpen pieces that were in place because of the performance of one Jason Hart last fall.  They thought that a Michael Givens and/or Brad Brach could be packaged to net a front line starer.  How has/would that worked out???

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

Think of the Jake Arrieta outcome of force feeding pitchers that are not ready for the show.  That is how bad it could be.

I don't see how Arrieta is an example of that.    He'd made 28 AAA starts before he was called up, posting a 3.93 ERA there in 17 starts in 2009, and then improving to 1.85 in 2010 in 11 starts.    And he pitched pretty respectably after his call-up, too, posting a 4.66 ERA in 18 starts, including a 3.78 ERA in his last 8 starts.    

Arrieta had issues here, but I don't feel he was rushed to the majors.   

[TINSTAAPP]

53 minutes ago, InsideCoroner said:

May the words "and Edwin Jackson coming in to this one-run game" never be spoken again unless it's for another team. 

There's no reason why Jackson should have been called up before Yacabonis. None. 

[Can_of_corn]

16 minutes ago, TINSTAAPP said:

There's no reason why Jackson should have been called up before Yacabonis. None. 

Veteranosity.

[thezeroes]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Arrieta had issues here, but I don't feel he was rushed to the majors.

He went late in that year draft because of perceived sign-ability issues.  I wonder if this perceived issue was also the gray matter between the ears???

Even if a player has decent stats in the Minors does not mean that the cerebral part of his game is intact.  Hence I feel he was rushed and had ZERO ability to face any type of failure straight in the face.  Players that have not had any type of stressful outings in the minors have no corresponding way to deal with them in the Majors IMO.  Yes he was having a decent year at Norfolk in 2010 except for his plus 4 walk rate per nine.  That also was his issue at the MLB level hence he was rushed before he got that part of his game in check, the clock got started and the Option years dwindled Then he ended up on the Sixty Day DL which added to his Service Time.  I will stand by my "Rushed" status on Arrieta.

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

He went late in that year draft because of perceived sign-ability issues.  I wonder if this perceived issue was also the gray matter between the ears???

Even if a player has decent stats in the Minors does not mean that the cerebral part of his game is intact.  Hence I feel he was rushed and had ZERO ability to face any type of failure straight in the face.  Players that have not had any type of stressful outings in the minors have no corresponding way to deal with them in the Majors IMO.  Yes he was having a decent year at Norfolk in 2010 except for his plus 4 walk rate per nine.  That also was his issue at the MLB level hence he was rushed before he got that part of his game in check, the clock got started and the Option years dwindled Then he ended up on the Sixty Day DL which added to his Service Time.  I will stand by my "Rushed" status on Arrieta.

And you think he would have faced failure in the minors?

[thezeroes]

54 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And you think he would have faced failure in the minors?

We will NEVER KNOW now will we.

As a side note, I see you had "No Comment" on the walk rates that extended into his MLB stay.  I was/am more concerned with this particular part of the stat line of  ANY MiLB pitcher.  By far, MLB Batters are more patient and less fooled than are MiLB batters.  Unless he had gotten his walk rate to less than two per nine I would not bring him up to the show.  To me his walk rate and inability to lessen it was a FAILURE but not brought to the forefront at the different times he was demoted.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

We will NEVER KNOW now will we.

As a side note, I see you had "No Comment" on the walk rates that extended into his MLB stay.  I was/am more concerned with this particular part of the stat line of  ANY MiLB pitcher.  By far, MLB Batters are more patient and less fooled than are MiLB batters.  Unless he had gotten his walk rate to less than two per nine I would not bring him up to the show.  To me his walk rate and inability to lessen it was a FAILURE but not brought to the forefront at the different times he was demoted.

I didn't necessarily have an issue with anything else you wrote.

Just the idea that staying in the minors would solve his "need to face failure" issues.

Let's say you have a guy you think need to face failure, what do you do?  Promote him so he has to face failure.  Jake obviously wasn't getting challenged in that way in the minors.

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

We will NEVER KNOW now will we.

As a side note, I see you had "No Comment" on the walk rates that extended into his MLB stay.  I was/am more concerned with this particular part of the stat line of  ANY MiLB pitcher.  By far, MLB Batters are more patient and less fooled than are MiLB batters.  Unless he had gotten his walk rate to less than two per nine I would not bring him up to the show.  To me his walk rate and inability to lessen it was a FAILURE but not brought to the forefront at the different times he was demoted.

I will disagree with this one.

You can't run a team like that.

You just can't.

You can't be that inflexible.

It just isn't realistic.

[thezeroes]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I didn't necessarily have an issue with anything else you wrote.

Just the idea that staying in the minors would solve his "need to face failure" issues.

Let's say you have a guy you think need to face failure, what do you do?  Promote him so he has to face failure.  Jake obviously wasn't getting challenged in that way in the minors.

The Orioles promoted him, he had some failures at the MLB Level, they sent him bak down and promoted him back up before those failures were corrected.  He never had faced them head on because at the time he was on the forty and the best available arm.  In his mind he knew this and used his demotion more as a rest period instead of a punitive type thing.  By recalling him before things were fixed the Orioles propagated the thought process and extended the learning curve.