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Most BB, worst ERA in the American League

Aglets

By Aglets
in Orioles Talk

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Aglets Hangout Grand Counsel

Aglets

Posted
Posted

How did we get here?   Is it really all the individual starting pitchers that are just this terrible?   Or should we be holding the new pitching coach somehow responsible?

Changes in BB rate from 2016-2017 for our starters:

Ubaldo - no real change (4.4 BB / 9). Still quite bad but we expect him to be that bad.

Bundy - 3.4 to 2.5.   Yay for improvement!

Gausman -  2.4 to 4.4.  Just absurd regression.

Miley - 2.7 to 4.8.   Again......simply absurd.

Tillman -  3.5 to 5.3.   Ugh.

So three out of our five starting pitchers have had HUGE jumps in their BB rate from last year to this year.    Is it all unrelated coincidence?   It's becoming a little harder for me to believe that.  

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Phantom Major Leaguer

Phantom

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We have been playing with fire with our starting pitching for years and we are finally getting burned. We all laugh at the projections and talk about how we outperform advanced stat projections every season but it bit us in 2015 and is biting us again this year. A shaky rotation + no depth is a recipe for disaster.

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, Aglets said:

How did we get here?   Is it really all the individual starting pitchers that are just this terrible?   Or should we be holding the new pitching coach somehow responsible?

Changes in BB rate from 2016-2017 for our starters:

Ubaldo - no real change (4.4 BB / 9). Still quite bad but we expect him to be that bad.

Bundy - 3.4 to 2.5.   Yay for improvement!

Gausman -  2.4 to 4.4.  Just absurd regression.

Miley - 2.7 to 4.8.   Again......simply absurd.

Tillman -  3.5 to 5.3.   Ugh.

So three out of our five starting pitchers have had HUGE jumps in their BB rate from last year to this year.    Is it all unrelated coincidence?   It's becoming a little harder for me to believe that.  

I can't believe a coach could do anything to alter a professional pitchers approach.   

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

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53 minutes ago, Phantom said:

We have been playing with fire with our starting pitching for years and we are finally getting burned. We all laugh at the projections and talk about how we outperform advanced stat projections every season but it bit us in 2015 and is biting us again this year. A shaky rotation + no depth is a recipe for disaster.

It is the clubs top 2 starters from last year that are killing us. 

 No question the depth is a real issue. We have none. 

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TouchemAll Hangout Grand Counsel

TouchemAll

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Yeah 3 failed starters, Tillman, Gausman, and Ubaldo,  and a over worked BP that has injuries, and NO TRUE CLOSER, and absolutely no depth, or help in the minors spells...

Disaster in the making.

Welcome to your 2017 O's.

Maybe some can still turn it around it's really their only hope. I would not lay a lot of cash on that bet.

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FanSince88 Major Leaguer

FanSince88

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Aglets said:

How did we get here?   Is it really all the individual starting pitchers that are just this terrible?   Or should we be holding the new pitching coach somehow responsible?

Changes in BB rate from 2016-2017 for our starters:

Ubaldo - no real change (4.4 BB / 9). Still quite bad but we expect him to be that bad.

Bundy - 3.4 to 2.5.   Yay for improvement!

Gausman -  2.4 to 4.4.  Just absurd regression.

Miley - 2.7 to 4.8.   Again......simply absurd.

Tillman -  3.5 to 5.3.   Ugh.

So three out of our five starting pitchers have had HUGE jumps in their BB rate from last year to this year.    Is it all unrelated coincidence?   It's becoming a little harder for me to believe that.  

Tillman has never been a great pitcher and always was hanging on by a thread.  He's gotten by all these years on pure grit and effort.  But there is a point where that's not enough anymore, and he's hit it, especially coming off injury.  No surprise there.  

Miley has never been a good pitcher either.  It's not that hard to believe that amongst his many other problems, he's now added lack of control to the list.  Or he knows his stuff sucks and is strategically pitching around the big boppers he knows will rock him.  

Gausman is the enigma but maybe AJ said it best..."sometimes you suck."  There could be mental/psychological issues playing a role here.  

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InsideCoroner All-Star

InsideCoroner

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Posted
10 minutes ago, birdwatcher55 said:

what is our ERA? Who is second worst?

4.76 ERA for us, 4.74 for Detroit, 4.73 for Minnesota.  NYY leads the league with a 3.60 ERA. 
228 walks, KC is second with 219.  
Hitting wise, we're 12th in the league in OPS with a .726 mark, a full hundred points behind the Yanks (.827).
13th in walks in the AL, 4th in strikeouts. 

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TouchemAll Hangout Grand Counsel

TouchemAll

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7 minutes ago, InsideCoroner said:

4.76 ERA for us, 4.74 for Detroit, 4.73 for Minnesota.  NYY leads the league with a 3.60 ERA. 
228 walks, KC is second with 219.  
Hitting wise, we're 12th in the league in OPS with a .726 mark, a full hundred points behind the Yanks (.827).
13th in walks in the AL, 4th in strikeouts. 

Like AJ said sometimes you suck...

I'll give Bundy a pass the rest SUCK.

There's no magic bullets on the farm they either need to pick it up in all facets of the game, but ESPECIALLY THE STARTING PITCHING, or it's going to be a LONG UGLY season.

 

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sportsfan8703 Hangout Grand Counsel

sportsfan8703

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You can chalk Tillman up to being hurt.  Miley changed his wind up and looks like he's getting more sink on the ball.  He might just need to adjust and start his pitches in the strike zone.  Gausman has no idea where the ball is going.  He has lots of movement but no command.  

I don't know how we have a $163 million payroll and have the worst starting pitching in baseball.  Doesn't seem like a very good use of resources.  

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FlipTheBird All-Star

FlipTheBird

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3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

You can chalk Tillman up to being hurt.  Miley changed his wind up and looks like he's getting more sink on the ball.  He might just need to adjust and start his pitches in the strike zone.  Gausman has no idea where the ball is going.  He has lots of movement but no command.  

I don't know how we have a $163 million payroll and have the worst starting pitching in baseball.  Doesn't seem like a very good use of resources.  

Detroit's right there with us, and they have the third-highest payroll in the game.

The Mets aren't far behind, and they're at 12 in payroll.

Point being, money spent doesn't guarantee a thing. We've got an albatross in Ubaldo, an injured guy in Tillman and ??? in Kevin Gausman. His implosion has been completely out of left field.

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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57 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

You can chalk Tillman up to being hurt.  Miley changed his wind up and looks like he's getting more sink on the ball.  He might just need to adjust and start his pitches in the strike zone.  Gausman has no idea where the ball is going.  He has lots of movement but no command.  

I don't know how we have a $163 million payroll and have the worst starting pitching in baseball.  Doesn't seem like a very good use of resources.  

This might be the single damning thing in all of this. Too many expensive resignings that have not worked out (Hardy, O'day, Davis) combined with awful free agency decisions (Ubaldo and Gallardo) plus trading young cheap controllable talent (Davies and Miranda) for expensive talent (Miley) have put the Orioles in an awkward position of being bad and expensive. 

If Duquette doesn't get an extension (it's doubtful he will) he's not going to do a firesale and that means more years that will be wasted. He needs to face it, with Britton down, Tillman ineffective and probably needing surgery, Gausman ineffective, and a multitude of Orioles talent two years away from free agency, this is the year the Orioles need to trade away their talent to restock the organization with young talent.

As much as I don't want to see him go, Machado is the best player to bring back a haul. If someone is willing to give the Orioles a top level young potential TOR, plus an everyday SS and maybe another one or two B level prospects, that would be a good start.

Let's face it, the Orioles are 10-20 in their last 30 games, their pitching staff is a disaster, and there's no help coming from the minor leagues. The window closed on Duquette last year. Now the injuries and ineffectiveness have caught up and this is now an old, expensive, bad team with little help in impact players coming up from the minors anytime soon.

 

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