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Time to start talking the f word

ChuckS

By ChuckS
in Orioles Talk

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MDK02 Hangout Grand Counsel

MDK02

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The front office has to know this team is done, right? I'm actually kind of nervous that they don't see the same thing that us(the fans) see. Simply put, this is not a good team, not even close.

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Lucky_13 Major Leaguer Rising Star

Lucky_13

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I think, by looking at some of buck's comments, they do see that this team is not competitive. But they promised a contending team so I don't think they are going to come out and say players are on the block until they absolutely have to. Which I don't think will happen until two weeks are left in July if it does at all.

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Nevermore All-Star

Nevermore

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12 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I agree.  Realistically we're going to see this team ride it out till the end of the year and then try and make a few changes.  Almost like in 2013 and 2015.  This team isn't rebuilding unless DD is fired.  

I would never trust DD to do a rebuilding.  Any gm who has gutted a farm system the way he has isn't trustworthy to do a rebuilding. 

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bpilktree Hangout Grand Counsel

bpilktree

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17 minutes ago, Nevermore said:

I would never trust DD to do a rebuilding.  Any gm who has gutted a farm system the way he has isn't trustworthy to do a rebuilding. 

How did he gut the farm system.  He has not traded many guys at all and guys not top prospects in our system that everyone says is no good.  The guys he traded have not been anything special and still have same issues now at other teams that kept them as average prospects in our system.  ERod still has that knee issue that he had with us and is out again.  Davies has been average in the NL Central.  

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Lucky_13 Major Leaguer Rising Star

Lucky_13

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54 minutes ago, Nevermore said:

I would never trust DD to do a rebuilding.  Any gm who has gutted a farm system the way he has isn't trustworthy to do a rebuilding. 

I'm not sure you can base a gm's ability to do a rebuild on his performance when his team is competitive. I'm not a big fan of Dan either but if you look at his deadline deals he is kind of hamstrung by our lack of prospects beyond the top talent. As a result he has to target guys like Feldman, Miley, and their ilk. I think given a chance to deal guys of actual value (Britton, Brach, Machado, etc) he could make trades for impact talent. Everyone gives Macphail alot of credit for the deals that helped rebuild the franchise but he never had to make win-now moves. Duquette's trades for so called "pitching depth" this off season have proven to be a disaster though. 

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bpilktree Hangout Grand Counsel

bpilktree

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I think we can rebuild this team rather quick if we do make two moves.  We can move Manny, Britton if he comes back healthy.  If he doesn't then Brach may get you a good package because of cost and team control.

Manny traded to the Astros for Alex Bergman who is having trouble in Houston getting on field.  He isn't adjusting like Manny did and is really a SS.  His bat is very good for SS but average at 3b.  If you put Manny at third with Correra and Altuve and the Cuban guy at 1st you have an amazing infield.  Manny to Astros for Bergman Fisher, Franklin Perez.

Britton to Brewers for Lewis Bronson and Luis Ortiz or Josh Hader.  Bronson is a great athlete and potential CF by middle of next year.  Hader is still top prospect and though some Wildness and Ortiz another solid middle rotation guy.  Hader more upside but Ortiz has been very good.

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Lucky_13 Major Leaguer Rising Star

Lucky_13

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I like that idea. Don't know if the Astros would give up Bergman. Overall, I don't see why they can't do a limited rebuild to refill the farm and get some major league ready talent. Then with money coming off the books after this season spend on some FA's to fill the holes. Kind of like Boston did in 2012-2013. Maybe even try to do a salary dump with Trumbo. 

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bpilktree Hangout Grand Counsel

bpilktree

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18 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

I like that idea. Don't know if the Astros would give up Bergman. Overall, I don't see why they can't do a limited rebuild to refill the farm and get some major league ready talent. Then with money coming off the books after this season spend on some FA's to fill the holes. Kind of like Boston did in 2012-2013. Maybe even try to do a salary dump with Trumbo. 

I agree we have some good pieces that are not here more then one more year.  We can use three key pieces for a way to fast rebuild it.  

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sportsfan8703 Hangout Grand Counsel

sportsfan8703

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I'm thinking we won't see a full on firesale.  Our upcoming FA's are Kim, Smith, Ubaldo, Hardy, Tillman, Smith, Flaherty and maybe Miley(option).  That's 60 million in payroll coming off the books.  With Machado, Britton, Gausman, Schoop, Brach and Joseph in Arb. After raises in Arb that's 45ish million coming off the books.  

So we'd have some payroll freed up plus whatever we could get in a trade for Kim, Smith and Miley, which isn't going to be a lot.  The option to just retool would be likely if we didn't fire DD.  

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sportsfan8703 Hangout Grand Counsel

sportsfan8703

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2 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

I agree we have some good pieces that are not here more then one more year.  We can use three key pieces for a way to fast rebuild it.  

People need to just forget about the idea of a fast "Yankee" rebuild.  They spend an incredible amount of money in the int'l market and had a decent farm system before the rebuild.  We have a worse off farm system, no int'l spending, and a lighter payroll.  

Our system and team would be closer to what we were in 2009 and 2010.  

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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12 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

People need to just forget about the idea of a fast "Yankee" rebuild.  They spend an incredible amount of money in the int'l market and had a decent farm system before the rebuild.  We have a worse off farm system, no int'l spending, and a lighter payroll.  

Our system and team would be closer to what we were in 2009 and 2010.  

Agreed.    We do have some good assets on our roster that should give our farm system a good boost if traded, but things won't happen overnight.     

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bpilktree Hangout Grand Counsel

bpilktree

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3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

People need to just forget about the idea of a fast "Yankee" rebuild.  They spend an incredible amount of money in the int'l market and had a decent farm system before the rebuild.  We have a worse off farm system, no int'l spending, and a lighter payroll.  

Our system and team would be closer to what we were in 2009 and 2010.  

The Yankees rebuild is not even a rebuild that we know worked.  The current team they have was all guys they had before they traded away Chapman, Miller and Beltran.  The guys they got for them are all still in the minors.  They still don't have solid pitching IMO and will need to do that if they are to stay top in the division.  They may to move  some of the guys they got for that.

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