Orioles Had -$2.1 Million Operating Loss Last Season

[theocean]

Haven't seen this posted yet - but interesting article from Forbes regarding payroll and team value information about all 30 MLB teams:

Link

Orioles had an estimated -$2.1 million operating loss last season. Only other teams with operating losses last season were the Tigers (-$36.4 million), Dodgers (-$20.5 million), Marlins (-$2.2 million), and Royals (-$.9 million).

O's had the 9th highest payroll in baseball at $164.3 million.

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, theocean said:

Haven't seen this posted yet - but interesting article from Forbes regarding payroll and team value information about all 30 MLB teams:

Link

Orioles had an estimated -$2.1 million operating loss last season. Only other teams with operating losses last season were the Tigers (-$36.4 million), Dodgers (-$20.5 million), Marlins (-$2.2 million), and Royals (-$.9 million).

O's had the 9th highest payroll in baseball at $164.3 million.

Does this count the revenue from MASN? It's a separate entity remember!

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Does this count the revenue from MASN? It's a separate entity remember!

Does it include the 60 million payout from Disney?

Of course it doesn't.

[Luke-OH]

14 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Does this count the revenue from MASN? It's a separate entity remember!

It probably counts the TV rights fee paid to the Orioles by MASN, but not MASN revenues.

[sportsfan8703]

LOL I’m just going to go out on a short limb and say PA easily made over $50-100 millimeters from investments pertaining to owning the Orioles and being only 1/30 MLB owners. 

I’m not made at him. We’re damn near the luxury tax. Just let DD spend some money in the international market and sign a SP. 

[weams]

7 hours ago, theocean said:

Haven't seen this posted yet - but interesting article from Forbes regarding payroll and team value information about all 30 MLB teams:

Link

Orioles had an estimated -$2.1 million operating loss last season. Only other teams with operating losses last season were the Tigers (-$36.4 million), Dodgers (-$20.5 million), Marlins (-$2.2 million), and Royals (-$.9 million).

O's had the 9th highest payroll in baseball at $164.3 million.

HHP front page

[Going Underground]

 We also do not include the value of regional sports networks owned by teams or their profits or losses. But we do include the rights fees (and pro-rated upfront bonuses) the RSNs pay the teams.

[Going Underground]

f the claims are accurate that the Nationals made $9.6 million in 2015 based on 16% ownership, the rest of the equation according to the Sports Business Journal filing, “Nats got $9.6M in MASN profits in ‘15” would mean the Orioles then received a staggering profit of $50,400,000 for just 2015 and indicate that MASN made $60,000,000 in profits in 2015.

 

http://www.talknats.com/2016/05/07/new-masn-filing-exposes-profits-retained-orioles/

[eddie83]

I know the topic isn’t about MASN specifically but what a mess. MASN was designed to appease Angelos over his TV market being infringed upon and protect him - the Orioles - financially. 

The fact is how can MASN pay the Nats what this committee says they should be paid and still remain profitable? Did anyone take into account that this is one network that shares two teams? This isn’t like a normal situation where one team is on one network and another team has a separate network. When the committee determined how much each team should be paid did they factor in that point? Why was it set up like this in the first place and not simply based off of profits to the company? 

All that said no doubt Angelos personally has reaped the rewards financially. 

[Frobby]

To be clear, this article is the one Forbes runs every year in April.    The numbers reported are for 2016, not 2017.

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Frobby said:

To be clear, this article is the one Forbes runs every year in April.    The numbers reported are for 2016, not 2017.

Paper loss for the tax man?

[Frobby]

49 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

f the claims are accurate that the Nationals made $9.6 million in 2015 based on 16% ownership, the rest of the equation according to the Sports Business Journal filing, “Nats got $9.6M in MASN profits in ‘15” would mean the Orioles then received a staggering profit of $50,400,000 for just 2015 and indicate that MASN made $60,000,000 in profits in 2015.

 

http://www.talknats.com/2016/05/07/new-masn-filing-exposes-profits-retained-orioles/

There's a fallacy in here.   Because of the rights fee litigation, the profits from MASN aren't really known.     However, the minimum total rights fees plus profits payable to the Nats probably is known.    Let me explain this with a rough example:

The Orioles claim the rights fees payable to the Nats (and equally, to the Orioles) are $40 mm (total $80 mm in rights fees).     Let's assume total revenues are $140 mm.    That leaves $60 mm in profit, and the Nats get their 16% share which is $9.6 mm, while the O's get $50.4 mm.   The total take (both rights fees and profits) is $49.6 mm for the Nats, $90.4 mm for the O's.  

But the RSDC found that rights fees should have been $65 mm per team, or $130 mm.    In that case, the profits are $10 mm, of which the Nats get $1.6 mm and the O's get $8.4 mm.    That means the total take is $66.6 mm for the Nats, $73.4 mm for the O's.

While the matter is in litigation, MASN can pay out the $49.6 mm to the Nats, because there is no way the total owed to the Nats will be less that that.    But they can't pay out $90.4 mm to the O's, because if the RSDC decision stands, the O's will have been overpaid by $17 mm.   The most the O's can be paid now is the $73.4 mm, with the other $17 mm remaining in in MASN until the litigation is decided.    And it could be less, because if the RSDC decision is voided and there is a new arbitration, the new decision could be worse for the O's than the previous panel decided, but can't really be better than what the Orioles originally asked for.

 

[Frobby]

22 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I know the topic isn’t about MASN specifically but what a mess. MASN was designed to appease Angelos over his TV market being infringed upon and protect him - the Orioles - financially. 

The fact is how can MASN pay the Nats what this committee says they should be paid and still remain profitable? Did anyone take into account that this is one network that shares two teams? This isn’t like a normal situation where one team is on one network and another team has a separate network. When the committee determined how much each team should be paid did they factor in that point? Why was it set up like this in the first place and not simply based off of profits to the company? 

All that said no doubt Angelos personally has reaped the rewards financially. 

The panel did take profitability into account.    The RSDC panel set rights fees at a number where, using conservative projections of MASN revenues, MASN would be left with a 5% profit margin after rights fees were paid equally to both teams.     The complaint of MASN is that they said the RSDC was required to use the so-called "Bortz methodology," which assumed a 20% profit margin, not 5%.    That's the crux of the whole dispute, but either way, MASN makes a profit, it's just a matter of how much.

It should be noted that when the arbitration took place, the revenues of MASN for 2012-16 had to be projected.     If there is a new arbitration, the revenues for that period will already be known.   So for that reason alone, the result will probably be different.   And of course, we're already a year into the new "re-set period" of 2017-21, and there has been no agreement or arbitration about what rights fees should be for that period.

[pastorfan]

8 hours ago, theocean said:

Haven't seen this posted yet - but interesting article from Forbes regarding payroll and team value information about all 30 MLB teams:

Link

Orioles had an estimated -$2.1 million operating loss last season. Only other teams with operating losses last season were the Tigers (-$36.4 million), Dodgers (-$20.5 million), Marlins (-$2.2 million), and Royals (-$.9 million).

O's had the 9th highest payroll in baseball at $164.3 million.

9th highest payroll and still starting pitching that is that terrible? DD has managed to do something quite unusual.

[Moose Milligan]

yeah, i really don't care.