How late can starters sign.

[bpilktree67]

As the last few pitchers continue to wait out the market it got me thinking.  www hen do they have to be in camp to be ready to pitch for opening day or atleast first turn through.  I am thinking that they would need to be signed and at camp in the next 5 days or so to be ready.  Along those lines if they needed little more time do they have to go on roster and take up space or can they be on a restricted list freeing up 25 man spot.

[Luke-OH]

30 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

As the last few pitchers continue to wait out the market it got me thinking.  www hen do they have to be in camp to be ready to pitch for opening day or atleast first turn through.  I am thinking that they would need to be signed and at camp in the next 5 days or so to be ready.  Along those lines if they needed little more time do they have to go on roster and take up space or can they be on a restricted list freeing up 25 man spot.

It depends completely on the throwing program they are on.  You can get yourself just as ready to pitch without being signed. There is the Camp Jobless going on, Boras's guys are working out at the Boras facilities, there are plenty of ways to get innings without playing in the Grapefruit/Cactus Leagues. I mean what's really different about that than what the O's are doing with Cashner pitching in a sim game.

[Bahama O's Fan]

I asked this question in another thread and was told Dan said March 1st.

[Frobby]

32 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

I asked this question in another thread and was told Dan said March 1st.

That’s what he said his “soft deadline” was, due to pitchers’ need to get ready.    If you think about it, pitchers reported about 12 days before the first ST game.   Figure if they showed up today (March 3), it’d be a week (3/10) before they could pitch 2 innings in a game, then 3 innings on 3/15, 4 innings on 3/20, 5 innings on 3/25 and then the next start is after the season has begun.    That’s very aggressive and not optimal, and assumes things go very smoothly with the progression.   I’d say any pitcher not signed in the next 3-4 days is probably going to miss at least one turn at the start of the season.  

[mdbdotcom]

2nd day of the season is a day off. As long as opening day is not rained out, we don't need a 5th starter until April 4. If the as yet unsigned pitcher isn't ready by the 4th, he'll be dead weight on the roster - having to be on it but not ready to contribute.

[Rene88]

3 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

I asked this question in another thread and was told Dan said March 1st.

Yep, that is correct. That is what he said. But remember it's MLB owners (NOT Boras) causing this. Boras ALWAYS has the best interests of the players in his heart:) 

I never side with owners for much of anything, but sports agents like Boras are hurting baseball. And baseball free agents are like spoiled children in comparison to football. Heck, you can cheat and still get a guaranteed deal (then stop using once you get the deal).

Tired of MLB free agents whining quite frankly. If anyone needs a fair labor agreement-it is the NFL that have long term medical implications from playing.

Getting off soap box:)

[Tx Oriole]

3 hours ago, mdbdotcom said:

2nd day of the season is a day off. As long as opening day is not rained out, we don't need a 5th starter until April 4. If the as yet unsigned pitcher isn't ready by the 4th, he'll be dead weight on the roster - having to be on it but not ready to contribute.

Yes but if they sign Iynn or Cobb those pitchers aren't numbers 5's. They are top of the line pitchers. I think they would have their own pitching program. Tillman the number 5.

[FanSince88]

2 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

Yes but if they sign Iynn or Cobb those pitchers aren't numbers 5's. They are top of the line pitchers. I think they would have their own pitching program. Tillman the number 5.

Of course, but it's getting close if not already past the point that you're going to have to place any new SP signee in the 5th starter slot for the first turn of the rotation to ensure they're ready.  And then give them a #1 or #2 starter workload the rest of the way.  

[FanSince88]

3 hours ago, Rene88 said:

Yep, that is correct. That is what he said. But remember it's MLB owners (NOT Boras) causing this. Boras ALWAYS has the best interests of the players in his heart:) 

I never side with owners for much of anything, but sports agents like Boras are hurting baseball. And baseball free agents are like spoiled children in comparison to football. Heck, you can cheat and still get a guaranteed deal (then stop using once you get the deal).

Tired of MLB free agents whining quite frankly. If anyone needs a fair labor agreement-it is the NFL that have long term medical implications from playing.

Getting off soap box:)

I'll give Boras his due -- it's smart negotiation to hold out.  The MLB teams have more to lose by waiting because past this point they will probably have to delay the regular season debut of whatever pitcher they sign, or risk injury or ineffectiveness by rushing them in.  Boras wants a long term deal  so it doesn't matter much to him or his clients if they miss the first few weeks of the 2018 season, if he gets them a 4 or 5 year deal. In fact, it will be fascinating to see how long these guys are willing to hold out.  This could drag out all the way to late April or May even.  Could take an injury to finally move the needle.  

[FanSince88]

Here's decent short article that makes basically the same point -- Arrieta's price may actually RISE if he waits things out and a starter that a contender is relying on gets injured or turns out to suck in 2018. 

https://cubbiescrib.com/2018/03/02/chicago-cubs-jake-arrieta-gaining-value-waiting-sign-deal/

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, FanSince88 said:

Here's decent short article that makes basically the same point -- Arrieta's price may actually RISE if he waits things out and a starter that a contender is relying on gets injured or turns out to suck in 2018. 

https://cubbiescrib.com/2018/03/02/chicago-cubs-jake-arrieta-gaining-value-waiting-sign-deal/

I don't think teams should reward these players/agents for holding out to the point where it hurts their preparation for the season.  

These players need to lower their demands if they want to play.  I'm guessing Arrieta wants a contract in the 100-120 million dollar range.  He may have to settle for a 4/80 type deal, which still is probably going to be an overpay for whoever lands him given his age and decline last year.  

With Cobb and Lynn, these guys are slightly better than mid-tier starters (# 2 or # 3 starters on a good team) so with them it's a little more perplexing why they are being so stubborn.  No idea what Boras is asking but they might have to settle for contracts in the 50-60 million range over 3 or 4 years. 

I think that is more than reasonable for the O's to sign Cobb or Lynn to a contract like that. Whether we are rebuilding or not, we need arms to keep us in games over the next few years for morale and that's not breaking the bank. 

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, FanSince88 said:

I'll give Boras his due -- it's smart negotiation to hold out.  The MLB teams have more to lose by waiting because past this point they will probably have to delay the regular season debut of whatever pitcher they sign, or risk injury or ineffectiveness by rushing them in.  Boras wants a long term deal  so it doesn't matter much to him or his clients if they miss the first few weeks of the 2018 season, if he gets them a 4 or 5 year deal. In fact, it will be fascinating to see how long these guys are willing to hold out.  This could drag out all the way to late April or May even.  Could take an injury to finally move the needle.  

I'm not so sure this will work to the pitchers' advantage. Let's see what happens.

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, FanSince88 said:

Of course, but it's getting close if not already past the point that you're going to have to place any new SP signee in the 5th starter slot for the first turn of the rotation to ensure they're ready.  And then give them a #1 or #2 starter workload the rest of the way.  

You got a good point. Didn't think of it that way.