Grayson Rodriguez 2018

[Luke-OH]

2 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Here's a link to an SI article that goes into the fact that GM's are looking for pitchers to get strikeouts.  https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/06/14/strikeouts-effect-major-league-baseball.  Here's an interesting point from the article:

 

 

I think we are just having a misunderstanding.

Of course GMs want strikeout pitchers, everyone wants strikeout pitchers I'd assume. I want strikeout pitchers, but that's not what I was talking about.

I'm talking about telling a young pitcher early in their development to hunt for strikeouts. I think it's more that they are coached to trust their stuff and execute their pitches, strikeouts are just a result of doing that well. 

I'm also in agreement with COC that the Orioles have emphasized GBs too much, my issue with that is they often encourage the addition or increased usage of a 2S fastball which I think is rarely the answer for a pitcher.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Luke-OH said:

I think we are just having a misunderstanding.

Of course GMs want strikeout pitchers, everyone wants strikeout pitchers I'd assume. I want strikeout pitchers, but that's not what I was talking about.

I'm talking about telling a young pitcher early in their development to hunt for strikeouts. I think it's more that they are coached to trust their stuff and execute their pitches, strikeouts are just a result of doing that well. 

I'm also in agreement with COC that the Orioles have emphasized GBs too much, my issue with that is they often encourage the addition or increased usage of a 2S fastball which I think is rarely the answer for a pitcher.

I also think it effects their drafting to an extent. 

[Luke-OH]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I also think it effects their drafting to an extent. 

Their rhetoric implies that this is happening, but I wonder how much is reality and how much is just talk. 

[Ruzious]

7 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

I think we are just having a misunderstanding.

Of course GMs want strikeout pitchers, everyone wants strikeout pitchers I'd assume. I want strikeout pitchers, but that's not what I was talking about.

I'm talking about telling a young pitcher early in their development to hunt for strikeouts. I think it's more that they are coached to trust their stuff and execute their pitches, strikeouts are just a result of doing that well. 

I'm also in agreement with COC that the Orioles have emphasized GBs too much, my issue with that is they often encourage the addition or increased usage of a 2S fastball which I think is rarely the answer for a pitcher.

Well, if GM's are looking for pitchers to get SO's, I'd be very surprised if that message isn't being sent to the managers and pitching coaches and then to the pitchers.  Effectively, they know the way to advance is to get more strikeouts.  

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Ruzious said:

Well, if GM's are looking for pitchers to get SO's, I'd be very surprised if that message isn't being sent to the managers and pitching coaches and then to the pitchers.  Effectively, they know the way to advance is to get more strikeouts.  

I remember Tom Glavine telling a story in Living on the Black (great book) about how when he was in the minors he had a game where he struck out a bunch of batters on change-ups in the dirt.    After the game a coach who had come to watch him pitch asked him what his best pitch was and Glavine said it was his change-up.    The coach said to him “son, if you try to throw that in the majors the hitters are going to lay off it until you throw it in the strike zone, and when you do, they’re going to hit it about 500 feet.”     Glavine ignored him, until about two weeks later when he threw his change-up to Bo Jackson, who hit it about 500 feet. At that point Glavine scrapped his change-up and started from scratch.

All that is to say, in the minors it’s not just how many you strike out, it’s whether your pitches are going to work against major league competition. 

[Ruzious]

That's a fine story, but the point is to learn to strike out hitters in ways that will be effective in the majors.  

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Ruzious said:

That's a fine story, but the point is to learn to strike out hitters in ways that will be effective in the majors.  

Can’t disagree with that.   But I think teaching the pitchers that they need to establish that they can throw strikes is the starting point.   Major league hitters will swing at stuff out of the zone, but not if they think the pitcher can’t throw it in the zone or can quickly recognize that the pitch won’t be in the zone.     So to me, “pitching to contact” means throwing strikes instead of constantly trying to get batters to chase pitches out of the zone.    

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Can’t disagree with that.   But I think teaching the pitchers that they need to establish that they can throw strikes is the starting point.   Major league hitters will swing at stuff out of the zone, but not if they think the pitcher can’t throw it in the zone or can quickly recognize that the pitch won’t be in the zone.     So to me, “pitching to contact” means throwing strikes instead of constantly trying to get batters to chase pitches out of the zone.    

To me "Pitching to contact" means attacking in the zone in an attempt to induce weak contact.

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

To me "Pitching to contact" means attacking in the zone in an attempt to induce weak contact.

Sort of saying the same thing, really.    Throw it in the zone but in spots where they’re unlikely to do damage if they make contact.    Use the chase pitch only once you are ahead.   

[Luke-OH]

4 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

Different organizations do expect different things in the big leagues. Cole is a different pitcher with Houston, Pitt encourages more FBs and pitching to contact while Houston emphasizes strike outs. That’s part of what made the Archer trade odd to me, Pitt has their pitchers throw more FBs than all but one team and Archers fastball is awful. 

I agree, again, I was talking about developing pitchers in the low minors.

I think it's a pretty standard general philosophy with young pitchers to teach them to establish the fastball, be able to throw it for strikes, start to command the FB, then ability to throw offspeed pitches for strikes, then how to locate offspeed pitches for chases, and finally developing pitch mix and feel for working hitters (that's where I think organizations differ the most with some orgs having a set philosophy and some kind of leaving up to the pitcher). Houston is very forward thinking about creating an optimal pitch mix using data science. I'm sure they have people finding pitchers with sub-optimal pitch mixes who they think they could get more out of and then those are the pitchers they target in trades, free agency, and even college draftees. 

[baltfan]

FYI, listened to MLBPipeline podcast. Jim Carlis had GrayRod as his most impressive pitching debut of the current draft class.  Also noted that Orioles have done a very solid job in the draft in recent years. 

[Just Regular]

A little Rodriguez-Bundy tale of the tape, as I guess that'll be the breathless hope if he makes Delmarva next spring.

Bundy by April 2012 was 19 years, 5 months; Rodriguez next April will be ... 19 years, 5 months.  In this exercise, I have learned Bundy's birthday is 11/15 and Rodriguez's 11/16 - talk about comps!

So next spring all Grayson needs to do is carry a 0.00 ERA for 30 innings in the Sally and make the Orioles by September.  Then don't get hurt!

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

A little Rodriguez-Bundy tale of the tape, as I guess that'll be the breathless hope if he makes Delmarva next spring.

Bundy by April 2012 was 19 years, 5 months; Rodriguez next April will be ... 19 years, 5 months.  In this exercise, I have learned Bundy's birthday is 11/15 and Rodriguez's 11/16 - talk about comps!

So next spring all Grayson needs to do is carry a 0.00 ERA for 30 innings in the Sally and make the Orioles by September.  Then don't get hurt!

I’ll settle for the last sentence, and hope Rodriguez makes the Delmarva roster and has a solid year there.   

[MachoMachadoMan]

I would be disappointed if GrayRod doesn't start next season in Delmarva. Likely treated like DL Hall this year with a slow and steady ramp up for innings. 

[Luke-OH]

1 minute ago, MachoMachadoMan said:

I would be disappointed if GrayRod doesn't start next season in Delmarva. Likely treated like DL Hall this year with a slow and steady ramp up for innings. 

That's their goal with him, to make a full season team. I'm just wondering if they'll consider starting a guy like Drew Rom in Delmarva too. He was the other HS pitcher selected with a fairly well developed repitiore of pitches and his GCL success tells me that control isn't really an issue. 

I know Tobias Myers and Hanifee started in Aberdeen. But Myers only pitched 7.2 innings in the GCL and Hanifee didn't pitch at all his draft year.