Grade the Gausman Deal

[Enjoy Terror]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Anyone bashing this trade is just petrified that he turns into another Arrieta.  Newsflash, Arrieta wasn't going to work here.  Neither was Gausman.  

Sorry pal. That’s not the reason anyone would be petrified. They’re petrified because the Orioles couldn’t get either to work here. It speaks to the development strategy of this ballclub.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Enjoy Terror said:

Sorry pal. That’s not the reason anyone would be petrified. They’re petrified because the Orioles couldn’t get either to work here. It speaks to the development strategy of this ballclub.

IIRC, no one was heartbroken when Arrieta was traded.  There weren't any grumblings of development strategy with posters here saying, "NOOO WHAT ARE YOU DOING??? He'd be GREAT if you just knew what you were doing!!!"  

Just because Gausman is a big strong guy that can throw hard doesn't mean it's the same situation.  

While I'd kick anyone in the shins in order to get to the front of the line to berate this team for development strategy, Gausman doesn't necessarily equal Arrieta.  

Until he becomes Arrieta.  

[Bradysburns]

I gave both trades a C. But upon further consideration, I'd change the Gausman deal to a D. 

I like Jean Carlos Encarnacion. But he should have been a secondary piece, not the headliner.

Phillips is a relief pitcher! Seriously? And he's not closer material, exactly. He's a solid minor league reliever who got shelled when he came up.

Not the worst trade in history, but I suspect we're going to be squirming, watching Gausman succeed for the next couple years at least.

Again, I think we should have waited to move both players if this was the market right now. 

Felt to me like TOO many teams like the O's were dumping, and we got caught up in a super hot (largely buyers') market. 

[Moose Milligan]

11 minutes ago, LA2 said:

So change the "here" (the coaching and development), rather than dump talented pitchers.

Well, that assumes you think Gausman is talented.  I really don't.  

All about changing the coaching and development here, though.

[Enjoy Terror]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

IIRC, no one was heartbroken when Arrieta was traded.  There weren't any grumblings of development strategy with posters here saying, "NOOO WHAT ARE YOU DOING??? He'd be GREAT if you just knew what you were doing!!!"  

Just because Gausman is a big strong guy that can throw hard doesn't mean it's the same situation.  

While I'd kick anyone in the shins in order to get to the front of the line to berate this team for development strategy, Gausman doesn't necessarily equal Arrieta.  

Until he becomes Arrieta.  

 No one was heartbroken then because Arrieta was struggling. The consensus was “we did what we could, change of scenery, maybe he’s not that great”.

It wasn’t until after that it came out that they had mucked about with his pitches and the Cubs immediately had a great pitcher on their hands that people started blaming the developmental squad. 

All the posters here knew Arrieta had the stuff to be great. He was top prospect for us.

how is that not different if Gausman goes onto great things?

Theyd have a better defense if it wasn’t just Mussina and Bedard in the last 25 years.

[ScGO's]

Dang, I said an A, but was quite alone.  I figured 4 prospects, a big ol' salary dump in O'day, avoiding the two very expensive arbitration years of a someone who has been a #4-esque starter for us, and acquiring the slot money to get VVM+ was genius for the most part.  

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Enjoy Terror said:

 No one was heartbroken then because Arrieta was struggling. The consensus was “we did what we could, change of scenery, maybe he’s not that great”.

It wasn’t until after that it came out that they had mucked about with his pitches and the Cubs immediately had a great pitcher on their hands that people started blaming the developmental squad. 

All the posters here knew Arrieta had the stuff to be great. He was top prospect for us.

Theyd have a better defense if it wasn’t just Mussina and Bedard in the last 25 years.

Yup, agreed.  I'd much rather have better development.  But that still doesn't mean Gausman would have been way better here than he was.  We'll never know.

[TheDeau52]

So when could we sign this Victor fella?

[Bundy]

The Braves have one of the top minor league systems in baseball and the best we can do it a top 14 and 30 prospect? What are they going to do with the international money? Spend it on a softball player from New Zealand or on a player in Korea that no one is allowed to sign? I give the deal a D

[Spakman]

Well maybe if people actually attended the games they would not have to cut payroll and could get better prospects.  Even when good, attendance has been really bad in last few years. I read constantly on here how people dont go to games or even watch on T.V. but I see them spend half their day taking about team on this site. I'm just saying. That being said they should have waited to trade Schoop it was much to rushed at deadline.

[atomic]

14 minutes ago, Bradysburns said:

I gave both trades a C. But upon further consideration, I'd change the Gausman deal to a D. 

I like Jean Carlos Encarnacion. But he should have been a secondary piece, not the headliner.

Phillips is a relief pitcher! Seriously? And he's not closer material, exactly. He's a solid minor league reliever who got shelled when he came up.

Not the worst trade in history, but I suspect we're going to be squirming, watching Gausman succeed for the next couple years at least.

Again, I think we should have waited to move both players if this was the market right now. 

Felt to me like TOO many teams like the O's were dumping, and we got caught up in a super hot (largely buyers') market. 

It will make the Arrieta trade look good. 

[Bradysburns]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, that assumes you think Gausman is talented.  I really don't.  

All about changing the coaching and development here, though.

You don't think Gausman is talented? Wow. You're a demanding guy. He's put up TWO seasons here with sub 3.70 ERAs with dominant stuff at times. In recent years, he's played behind HORRID defensive teams. And he's doing it all in an organization known for destroying pitchers. I think you greatly underestimate him. 

And comparing him to Jake Arrieta? Forget it. Jake's ERA numbers here were so ridiculous... he was SO bad, so consistently, that yes... of course nobody worried too much when we traded him. 

If Gausman, who wildly outperformed Jake in Baltimore, makes a similar leap in results... we're going to have to rename the Cy Young Award soon. 

I don't think we got fleeced here. But I think we accepted below-value returns. 

[TonySoprano]

1 hour ago, MurphDogg said:

F.

Terrible trade, they leveraged Gausman's value into dumping O'Day's salary. They didn't need to trade Gausman and none of the players coming back look to be impact Major League players.

I also don't believe that the Orioles will use all of their international money, most of the good players have already signed, and international scouting is a long game not one you can dive into at the drop of a hat. I don't think that this $2.5 million is the difference in acquiring VVM and not acquiring him, they already had the most money.

I'm not assigning a grade but this take is close to mine.  It seems like we took less in prospects for dumping O'Day's $9M and also gaining the $2.5M.
 

[Three Run Homer]

I'd love to see the O's sign VVM, but did they have to make this trade to make that happen?  They already had more slot money than anyone else to throw around.  Getting $2.5 million more in bonus money seems like overkill.  

Encarnacion seems to have the highest ceiling of the guys we got, but a 13/100 K/BB ratio in the Sally League is a major red flag for me.  How many players have succeeded in the major leagues who had such an awful approach at this stage of their careers?   It's hard enough to project guys who have great numbers in the minors--lots of them never pan out.  Aren't the odds even longer when you try to project guys who have major warts in their track record?  

Not impressed by either of today's trades.  Very disappointing after the excellent returns we got for Manny and Zach.  Why make a trade just to make a trade?   

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Spakman said:

Well maybe if people actually attended the games they would not have to cut payroll and could get better prospects.  Even when good, attendance has been really bad in last few years. I read constantly on here how people dont go to games or even watch on T.V. but I see them spend half their day taking about team on this site. I'm just saying. That being said they should have waited to trade Schoop it was much to rushed at deadline.

MLBAM