Mesa Brothers Declared Free Agents By MLB

[sevastras]

1 minute ago, Luke-OH said:

It's beginning to look like Ohtani would have been worth 30mm+ to hit only.

I agree, but I would never have believed it at the time he was signing.  I honestly valued him 100% as a pitcher and thought that he would figure out his bat would be great for a pitcher but not good enough to be an everyday player. I admit I was wrong about his bat. I have never been a fan of the Ichero style of hitting. But hey, Ichero put up one solid career. 

[sportsfan8703]

His latest scouting report from mlb pipeline

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2018?list=int

“Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 45 | Run: 60 | Arm: 60 | Field: 50

Victor Victor Mesa's departure from Cuba in May sent shockwaves through the international baseball community.

Now, he is eligible to sign with a Major League team.

At 22, Mesa is the oldest player on MLB.com's Top 30 International Prospects list. He's also among the most accomplished. Mesa made his debut for Matanzas in Cuba's Serie Nacional, the island's top league, at 16 in 2012. He had three hits, including two doubles, in seven at-bats for Cuba during last year's World Baseball Classic.

Overall, Mesa is considered an outstanding defender with a strong arm. He's also a plus runner and scouts like his upside and pedigree. There's the belief that Mesa would be selected in the first round if he was eligible for the Draft, and he's the type of hitter who could be placed at the top of the order. However, there are questions remaining about his hit tool and power potential because he's not considered "a pure hitter" like fellow Cubans Luis Robert and Yoan Moncada were at the same age. That said, there is a lot to like about his potential and scouts have watched him shine in international tournaments for years. Evaluators will get another chance to assess his skills when he performs in a showcase for all 30 teams.

Mesa's younger brother, Victor Jr., 16, was a star for Cuba's 18U national team as a switch-hitting outfielder and is also eligible to sign. Their father, Victor Sr., played almost two decades in Cuba's Serie Nacional starting in the late 1970s and was a star outfielder and manager on the island.”

I look at signing him like this.... He’d be like adding a CF version of Y.Diaz with more speed and less hit tool. Also, at the very least, he’d be like adding an extra first round draft pick. I’d say the fact that he’d be an extra first round pick would be his floor. Keep in mind that the Dodgers spent $31 in signing bonus and penalties to sign Y.Diaz, and he was the centerpiece of the Machado trade. 

Things are lined up pretty ideal for the orioles right now. The guy is basically pre scouted. All the other big name teams are out of it. He’s from Cuba, so our lack of infrastructure in the DR and Ven don’t hurt us. We have the most money. If we don’t jump in now, when are we going to????

[Tryptamine]

On 9/14/2018 at 11:46 AM, cnmilton said:

Hopefully the O's go out, sign both brothers, as well as Gaston, and call it an international season

Probably going to catch a lot of flack for this, but the Orioles really aren't the organization that should be signing a guy like Gaston unless they're doing it strictly with intent to move him to another team.Right now the kid is a one trick pony. He's a fastball that hits triple digits at 16 years old, but outside of that he has basically nothing. No offspeed pitches that approach average, no command that approaches average, subpar mechanics, etc etc. Gaston is going to have to be built from the ground up and quite frankly an organization like the Orioles hasn't really shown that they're suited for that type of challenge. 

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

His latest scouting report from mlb pipeline

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2018?list=int

“Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 45 | Run: 60 | Arm: 60 | Field: 50

Victor Victor Mesa's departure from Cuba in May sent shockwaves through the international baseball community.

Now, he is eligible to sign with a Major League team.

At 22, Mesa is the oldest player on MLB.com's Top 30 International Prospects list. He's also among the most accomplished. Mesa made his debut for Matanzas in Cuba's Serie Nacional, the island's top league, at 16 in 2012. He had three hits, including two doubles, in seven at-bats for Cuba during last year's World Baseball Classic.

Overall, Mesa is considered an outstanding defender with a strong arm. He's also a plus runner and scouts like his upside and pedigree. There's the belief that Mesa would be selected in the first round if he was eligible for the Draft, and he's the type of hitter who could be placed at the top of the order. However, there are questions remaining about his hit tool and power potential because he's not considered "a pure hitter" like fellow Cubans Luis Robert and Yoan Moncada were at the same age. That said, there is a lot to like about his potential and scouts have watched him shine in international tournaments for years. Evaluators will get another chance to assess his skills when he performs in a showcase for all 30 teams.

Mesa's younger brother, Victor Jr., 16, was a star for Cuba's 18U national team as a switch-hitting outfielder and is also eligible to sign. Their father, Victor Sr., played almost two decades in Cuba's Serie Nacional starting in the late 1970s and was a star outfielder and manager on the island.”

I look at signing him like this.... He’d be like adding a CF version of Y.Diaz with more speed and less hit tool. Also, at the very least, he’d be like adding an extra first round draft pick. I’d say the fact that he’d be an extra first round pick would be his floor. Keep in mind that the Dodgers spent $31 in signing bonus and penalties to sign Y.Diaz, and he was the centerpiece of the Machado trade. 

Things are lined up pretty ideal for the orioles right now. The guy is basically pre scouted. All the other big name teams are out of it. He’s from Cuba, so our lack of infrastructure in the DR and Ven don’t hurt us. We have the most money. If we don’t jump in now, when are we going to????

Thanks for posting this.   Its helped me understand VVM's potential a little better.

[clapdiddy]

13 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Probably going to catch a lot of flack for this, but the Orioles really aren't the organization that should be signing a guy like Gaston unless they're doing it strictly with intent to move him to another team.Right now the kid is a one trick pony. He's a fastball that hits triple digits at 16 years old, but outside of that he has basically nothing. No offspeed pitches that approach average, no command that approaches average, subpar mechanics, etc etc. Gaston is going to have to be built from the ground up and quite frankly an organization like the Orioles hasn't really shown that they're suited for that type of challenge. 

The boldface is the most important thing you say here.   Unfortunately, this club will be bad until they figure out how to fix this problem.

[atomic]

10 hours ago, sevastras said:

What can’t you believe?  You said that you wouldn’t give someone of Gentry’s career level $4mm signing bonus, I said I would all day every day if you guaranteed Gentry level production over the course of his career. 

VVM has been said to be the top prospect for this year. Again, as I have said 50 times, this year is a decent year stacked between two exceptional quality years. Last year and next are supposedly top years. That said, I can see VVM as an everyday player and potential all star as a ceiling. With limited information, I think Jr may be better but further out which means he has more time to hurt himself or not pan out. 

I would have given Ohtani, Darvish, Puig and several others $15mm in a heart beat. Probably given Ohtani $30mm if he would be happy to pitch only. 

If he is worth $4 than he is worth $6. I agree, then you say if his upside is Gentry then pass. I argued that Gentry level production is worth $4-$6. 

Then you said save the money for next year if that is the case. You can’t carry over money between IFA years, which I will give you the credit of already knowing(not being a dbag, I know you are reading enough to know that on here). I would argue that saving money from one year to the next is not something that teams actually do. 

“Let’s save $4m in spending this year and we will invest that on another player next year.”  That is my assumption of your statement.  My thinking is, “should we spend and can we move things around to make this make sense. “ 

Your thinking is a way of thinking that there is a finite amount of money to spend. I argue that there is not, otherwise you probably shouldn’t have been approved to own a professional team. 

Finally, I agree. If you have a top notch team, Gentry is a 4th OF. Defensive replacement, speed on the bases, great piece for a NL team.  My whole arguement is that Gentry level production is still worth that #. 

If you can’t believe any of this post, I really don’t know what else I can do for you.  

If you don't think the guy is limited to Gentry's production I don't know why  were are arguing this.   My point is if he is the top prospect and even if this is a weak class.  And he has potential to be a everyday player on a winning team then spending the whole 6 million is a something the club should do.

If his potential was Gentry I would rather have Gausman on the team and him either traded during the off-season for better prospects or kept through next season. 

Probably the reason the Marlins and Rays have a lot of money left is not that their goal was to sign Victor Victor but more likely they are under tight budget constraints.  

 

[Camden_yardbird]

In regards to Gaston I dont know that the statement that Orioles aren't the organization to build a pitcher from the ground up is fair.  Are they bad developing pitchers?  Absolutely.  But their problems have been more about having prospects who are used to doing certain things to succeed.  Maybe the blank slate is exactly what the Orioles need.

[sevastras]

29 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

In regards to Gaston I dont know that the statement that Orioles aren't the organization to build a pitcher from the ground up is fair.  Are they bad developing pitchers?  Absolutely.  But their problems have been more about having prospects who are used to doing certain things to succeed.  Maybe the blank slate is exactly what the Orioles need.

16 year olds that throw 100 and have been rumored to have failed a drug test presents a lot of question marks. 

Did he use PEDs?(probably, a fair amount do)

Is his arm going to fall off?

Will he be able to develop more than just a fastball?

i am all for giving him a shot at the right price, but I wouldn’t count on him being the next Chapman or ever pitch a single pitch in the majors for that matter.  And it isn’t an Orioles thing, he could go to the Braves and I would still feel that way.  High risk reward guy, probably why he hasn’t been signed. I’m sure his party doesn’t like the numbers coming in after they had visions of spending the $2mm they thought they were getting.  Unless the losers of the VVM derby make a push for him after VVM signs, I can see it coming down to June 1 or next signing period before Gaston commits. 

[Beef Supreme]

12 hours ago, sevastras said:

I agree, but I would never have believed it at the time he was signing.  I honestly valued him 100% as a pitcher and thought that he would figure out his bat would be great for a pitcher but not good enough to be an everyday player. I admit I was wrong about his bat. I have never been a fan of the Ichero style of hitting. But hey, Ichero put up one solid career. 

Ichiro will be a first ballot Hall of Famer! To say he had a "solid career" diminishes his tremendous accomplishments. And is downright dishonest.

[Beef Supreme]

5 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

Probably going to catch a lot of flack for this, but the Orioles really aren't the organization that should be signing a guy like Gaston unless they're doing it strictly with intent to move him to another team.Right now the kid is a one trick pony. He's a fastball that hits triple digits at 16 years old, but outside of that he has basically nothing. No offspeed pitches that approach average, no command that approaches average, subpar mechanics, etc etc. Gaston is going to have to be built from the ground up and quite frankly an organization like the Orioles hasn't really shown that they're suited for that type of challenge. 

I'm buying.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

If you don't think the guy is limited to Gentry's production I don't know why  were are arguing this.   My point is if he is the top prospect and even if this is a weak class.  And he has potential to be a everyday player on a winning team then spending the whole 6 million is a something the club should do.

If his potential was Gentry I would rather have Gausman on the team and him either traded during the off-season for better prospects or kept through next season.

I’m not sure why we got off on this tangent.    A poster said that several people on this site had previously stated that Mesa’s ceiling was Craig Gentry.    I don’t believe that anyone said that, or that it’s true.    I do think it’s reasonable to think that Gentry is a possible (even mid-range probable) outcome for Mesa, but that’s not his ceiling.    His ceiling is considerably higher from what I’ve read.   And yeah, I’d pay a $4 mm signing bonus to a player with that profile without much hesitation.   

[scbalt52]

52 minutes ago, sevastras said:

16 year olds that throw 100 and have been rumored to have failed a drug test presents a lot of question marks. 

Did he use PEDs?(probably, a fair amount do)

Is his arm going to fall off?

Will he be able to develop more than just a fastball?

i am all for giving him a shot at the right price, but I wouldn’t count on him being the next Chapman or ever pitch a single pitch in the majors for that matter.  And it isn’t an Orioles thing, he could go to the Braves and I would still feel that way.  High risk reward guy, probably why he hasn’t been signed. I’m sure his party doesn’t like the numbers coming in after they had visions of spending the $2mm they thought they were getting.  Unless the losers of the VVM derby make a push for him after VVM signs, I can see it coming down to June 1 or next signing period before Gaston commits. 

I agree with everything in this post except for that. I don't see it as high risk. I see low risk, high reward. Unless you mean there's a good chance he never becomes anything than that is fine, but I don't see us risking a whole lot. Throw some cash at him and see if he ever turns out. If he never does, that is fine too.

[Frobby]

Some long quotes from Duquette about the Mesa situation in this Melewski piece.     I didn’t like this part much:

”We don’t have that significant of a scouting portfolio on him.   We saw him in the (World Baseball Classic), so we’re going to have to get up to speed.”

Hopefully, he’s just playing possum.   

http://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2018/09/duquette-talks-victor-victor-mullins-talks-about-his-big-game.html

[wildcard]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Some long quotes from Duquette about the Mesa situation in this Melewski piece.     I didn’t like this part much:

”We don’t have that significant of a scouting portfolio on him.   We saw him in the (World Baseball Classic), so we’re going to have to get up to speed.”

Hopefully, he’s just playing possum.   

http://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2018/09/duquette-talks-victor-victor-mullins-talks-about-his-big-game.html

Sounds like someone that is two weeks from being out of a job.

[Ruzious]

10 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Sounds like someone that is two weeks from being out of a job.

Hard to say.  He certainly sounds like someone who hasn't been told he'll have a job in 2 weeks.  If the O's plan on keeping him, they really should communicate, or - to put it another way, they really should COMMUNICATE!  His job is vital to the O's future - to say the least.