Will the Orioles be better in 2019 than 2018?

[Redskins Rick]

12 hours ago, SteveA said:

Those franchises made a conscious choice to embrace their previous history, keeping the franchise name, etc.

It's not one I would make.   I grew up a Baltimore Colts fan, and I despise the fact that Indianapolis:

   -- kept the name (which was chosen from entries sent in a contest by Baltimore fans, and represents the horse racing industry in Maryland)

   -- tried to steal the heritage too.   When a player goes into the HoF, they get a presentation of their HoF ring at their home stadium.   Great Baltimore Colt tight end John Mackey refused the invitation to Indianapolis, much to the respect of everyone involved.

You don't see the Ravens trying to claim Jim Brown or Otto Graham.

They left the name Browns and history behind to the city of Cleveland.

I have to ask, if it was so wrong for Indianapolis to make a play and lure the Colts.

Why was it not wrong for Maryland to bribe Modell to bring his team to Baltimore?

Teams move, it doesn't matter which sport, it sucks when they do. I hated losing the Senators to Texas as bad as they sucked.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

12 hours ago, SteveA said:

They also brought a lot of people with them.   A winning team when they moved, and they didn't really skip a beat, they continued to win.

By the end of 1955, there was hardly ANYBODY left on the Orioles that had played on the 1953 Browns.   It really was a total transition.

And those two guys were kind of special cases too.   One had massive, unprecedented historic impact on baseball, and the other was struck down in the prime of his career and stayed on with the team as a goodwill ambassador.   They weren't JUST stars from the Brooklyn era of the team.

Not only were the players almost completely transitioned, but the there was bascially no fanbase in St. Louis.  They averaged 3,800 fans a game in '53.  In the 30s they had several years where they drew under 100,000 fans, or about 1,000 a game.  Many or most full season minor league teams today outdraw an average Browns year.  There were some years, particularly in the early 20s, where the Browns outdrew the Cardinals.  But by '53 the Cards were over 11,000 a game and the Browns were at 3,800.

[weams]

22 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That's a stick in the eye of Montreal fans.  Here, we're not only going to steal your team, but we're also going to try to steal the history.  If Indianapolis has a Johnny U statue I think Colts fans should go steal it, put it in a Mayflower van, and bring it home.

[Tx Oriole]

8 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

They left the name Browns and history behind to the city of Cleveland.

I have to ask, if it was so wrong for Indianapolis to make a play and lure the Colts.

Why was it not wrong for Maryland to bribe Modell to bring his team to Baltimore?

Teams move, it doesn't matter which sport, it sucks when they do. I hated losing the Senators to Texas as bad as they sucked.

 

I hated for the Colts to leave Baltimore. I'm still a fan of the Colts but not as much as I was when they were in Baltimore. 

[Tx Oriole]

Just now, Tx Oriole said:

I hated for the Colts to leave Baltimore. I'm still a fan of the Colts but not as much as I was when they were in Baltimore. 

Didn't the Senators first leave DC for Minnesota and become the Twins? 

[Tx Oriole]

Now back to the original question. I think yes they will be better than the team of 2018. I'm excited there is a new GM and Manager in place. 

[Redskins Rick]

5 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Didn't the Senators first leave DC for Minnesota and become the Twins? 

They did, I know I am old, but I was too young at the time.

1960, and MLB had already had an agreement to replace the team with an expansion team.

 

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Tx Oriole said:

Now back to the original question. I think yes they will be better than the team of 2018. I'm excited there is a new GM and Manager in place. 

I am not looking for unrealistic goals, I hope to see better baseball.

But, this team is going to need 2 years minimum to rebuild and some believe more.

 

[Frobby]

13 hours ago, SteveA said:

Dawson, Raines, etc are in fact honored at Nats Park.    Their names are on some sort of Ring of Honor or something.

But I agree with you, I wouldn't do that either.

 

47 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That's a stick in the eye of Montreal fans.  Here, we're not only going to steal your team, but we're also going to try to steal the history.  If Indianapolis has a Johnny U statue I think Colts fans should go steal it, put it in a Mayflower van, and bring it home.

Honestly, I don’t know a single Nats fan who gives a damn about any former Expo players, including the ones who carried over to the 2005 Nats.   Basically, Nats history begins with Ryan Zimmerman so far as they’re concerned.    The only Expo holdover anyone cares about is Frank Robinson.

The older fans do care about Frank Howard and other memorable names from the Senators.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

 

Honestly, I don’t know a single Nats fan who gives a damn about any former Expo players, including the ones who carried over to the 2005 Nats.   Basically, Nats history begins with Ryan Zimmerman so far as they’re concerned.    The only Expo holdover anyone cares about is Frank Robinson.

The older fans do care about Frank Howard and other memorable names from the Senators.

Amen, that is for sure.

I look to Frank, like you look to Frank and Brooks.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Amen, that is for sure.

I look to Frank, like you look to Frank and Brooks.

Lots of former Senators fans do.   I wouldn’t be an Orioles fan if I didn’t point out that the Robinson boys were much, much better players than Hondo.    But on a pretty awful team (except 1969), he was the consistent bright spot.    

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Lots of former Senators fans do.   I wouldn’t be an Orioles fan if I didn’t point out that the Robinson boys were much, much better players than Hondo.    But on a pretty awful team (except 1969), he was the consistent bright spot.    

The Senators had a horrible start for an expansion team. Howard could really hit the home run bombs, and not cheap shots. He carried a very good WAR for several years on bad teams.

Brinkman was pretty close to as good as the Blade at SS. But were plus plus with the glove and weak with the bat.

They finally turned the corner in 1969, and looking bright, had several stars starting to shine, when their idiot owner got involved and traded away the entire starting infield for a druggie washed out Denny McClain.

 

[ShaneDawg85]

16 hours ago, atomic said:

No player on the Orioles before I was born means anything to me. I became a fan in 1972.  I couldn't care less about Frank Robinson other than as a manager.  And Luis Aparcio and Jim Gentile mean as much to me as Orioles as George Sisler does. 

I was born in 1985, 10 years after Frank Robinson retired.  Doesn't mean I couldn't and didn't respect the hell out of the guy and what he did for the franchise long before I was even born.

[ShaneDawg85]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That's a stick in the eye of Montreal fans.  Here, we're not only going to steal your team, but we're also going to try to steal the history.  If Indianapolis has a Johnny U statue I think Colts fans should go steal it, put it in a Mayflower van, and bring it home.

I'd say the bigger transgression, if you will, are the flags that fly over the scoreboard for accomplishments of the original Washington Senators.  If they wanted to recognize DC baseball history somewhere in the ballpark, that's fine.  But, usually flying a banner, pennant, or flag is representative of something the franchise accomplished.  The Nationals are not the same continuation as the old old Senators.

[PaulFolk]

20 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

 

That said? 115 losses would be incredibly difficult to outdo. Worst Baltimore Orioles team since 1988 (they lost 107). 

 

Actually they're the worst Baltimore Orioles team EVER. They were worse than the 1988 team.