Is Harbor Park (Norfolk AAA) a problem?

[DrungoHazewood]

14 hours ago, LookinUp said:

I hate that I'm going by memory here. Maybe others can correct this...

My limited understanding is that places like Coors Field and Harbor Park present a different problem w/r/t park effects than a place like Fenway Park or Oakland Coliseum, for example. When the problem is the park's dimensions, moving fences back and taking away/adding foul territory could greatly affect park factors. When the problem is the air, I think I remember that moving the fences back in Coors field led to even more runs because there was even more territory for fielders to cover. Conversely, moving fences in at Norfolk probably ended up meaning more batted balls were caught than had happened before. The whole dynamic of the flight of the ball and pitch movement is different. 

Here's a great article. Maybe the Tides need to move their baseballs to a de-humidifier (seriously).

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/13/colorado-rockies-baseball-humidor-coors-field/

I think there's some legitimacy to the idea that just moving fences around won't necessarily have a direct, linear impact on offense.  Move the fences in too much and the outfielders have less area to cover.  Part of the reason players used to hit .400 was that most parks had a fence or three that was 450+ feet from the plate, and the lesser athletes of a century ago didn't have a chance to cover all that ground.

I think Norfolk needs to fall prey to the Hilton lobbyists like Baltimore did.  Let them build a monstrosity of a hotel featuring Soviet brutalist architecture looming over left-center field and block all the wind.  Sure, in Norfolk you might have to fill in part of the harbor for that, but what's a little dredging...  It's the least Hilton can do for the city of Baltimore for taking our view of the Bromo Seltzer Tower.

[Aglets]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think there's some legitimacy to the idea that just moving fences around won't necessarily have a direct, linear impact on offense.  Move the fences in too much and the outfielders have less area to cover.  Part of the reason players used to hit .400 was that most parks had a fence or three that was 450+ feet from the plate, and the lesser athletes of a century ago didn't have a chance to cover all that ground.

I think Norfolk needs to fall prey to the Hilton lobbyists like Baltimore did.  Let them build a monstrosity of a hotel featuring Soviet brutalist architecture looming over left-center field and block all the wind.  Sure, in Norfolk you might have to fill in part of the harbor for that, but what's a little dredging...  It's the least Hilton can do for the city of Baltimore for taking our view of the Bromo Seltzer Tower.

Better yet, just pick up the Hilton in Baltimore and take it to Norfolk!   Make everyone happy!

[NCRaven]

16 hours ago, Jagwar said:

What about the amount of foul territory at Harbor Park? One of the reasons the Oakland Coliseum is a pitcher's park is that there's a freaking football field between the 1B line and the seats. Foul balls that land in the seats in most parks aren't even on the warning track in Oakland. 

The next revolution in pitching.  Closers.  Openers.  Bah, nothing.  Next we'll have the home pitcher and the road pitcher.  Or, last I looked, the A's still have to play 81 games away from the Coliseum.  Largely think it's a non-issue.  Good hitters will hit and good pitchers will pitch.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, NCRaven said:

The next revolution in pitching.  Closers.  Openers.  Bah, nothing.  Next we'll have the home pitcher and the road pitcher.  Or, last I looked, the A's still have to play 81 games away from the Coliseum.  Largely think it's a non-issue.  Good hitters will hit and good pitchers will pitch.

Teams need to emphasize (for all I know they do) that park effects are just park effects.  If you hit .280 with 17 homers at Norfolk you're a pretty good hitter.  Players shouldn't get the impression that the organization is judging them to unfair standards. 

I think that's happened in the past with players like Jon Knott*, who had a .900+ OPS in the Padres system, then an .807 in Norfolk but never got a chance with a terrible '07 O's team that gave 1500+ PAs to random 30+ year old corner players and DHs.

* No, this will never die.  Also, JR House.

[NashLumber]

On 1/2/2019 at 1:58 PM, DrungoHazewood said:

Having the AAA team close by is vastly more important than the park factors.  The park is mainly a problem with fans who see a 3.75 ERA in Norfolk and think the guy is major league ready, not realizing that is about the equivalent of a 5.50 or a 6.00 in Baltimore.

The Rays have their AAA team in Durham NC. That’s a crazy distance, imho. That said, I’d be happy for the Tide to move to Durham (and retain The Bulls name). Who knows, maybe it’ll happen if the Rays can’t get their stadium built and they end up getting relocated and some AAA teams get shuffled. 

[Rene88]

On 1/2/2019 at 5:30 PM, weams said:

I'll go to a couple games there this season and let you know. 

One of my favorite minor league parks. Poor man’s San Fran.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

20 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

One of my favorite minor league parks. Poor man’s San Fran.

Especially when the wind really gets going.

Have you ever been to Aberdeen?

[VaBird1]

On 1/3/2019 at 7:33 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

I think there's some legitimacy to the idea that just moving fences around won't necessarily have a direct, linear impact on offense.  Move the fences in too much and the outfielders have less area to cover.  Part of the reason players used to hit .400 was that most parks had a fence or three that was 450+ feet from the plate, and the lesser athletes of a century ago didn't have a chance to cover all that ground.

I think Norfolk needs to fall prey to the Hilton lobbyists like Baltimore did.  Let them build a monstrosity of a hotel featuring Soviet brutalist architecture looming over left-center field and block all the wind.  Sure, in Norfolk you might have to fill in part of the harbor for that, but what's a little dredging...  It's the least Hilton can do for the city of Baltimore for taking our view of the Bromo Seltzer Tower.

I rather have them rebuild the Boathouse.  That place was great.

[Snutchy]

On 1/3/2019 at 2:07 AM, Legend_Of_Joey said:

Southwest has daily flights from BWI to Norfolk. About a 30 min flight.

Didn't know that, but thanks for the info! I'm in Rochester quite a bit so I was familiar with that part. 

[Snutchy]

On 1/3/2019 at 7:24 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

What's it been, 15 years?  Are there really that many O's fans left up there? And once you factor in all the airport hassles I think flying to Rochester is just as long as driving to Norfolk, unless the O's charter a Lear jet on the general aviation side and Austin Wynns doesn't have to go through security and check-in.  And if you're going to do all that, just fly the Lear to Norfok.

I agree with the travel part, because it really is a wash. 

It has been 15 years, but they were there for 40 or so. I'm up there a lot and there are plenty of O's fans. Funny story, I was up there a few years ago for an ALS walk to support my uncle. I was approached by this mid-fifties gentleman because of my O's hat. We had a nice long conversation about the history of the Orioles and how much a fan he is. Turns out that he is a senator. Robach or something. My mother in law was quite amused. 

[bobmc]

On 1/3/2019 at 7:33 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

I think there's some legitimacy to the idea that just moving fences around won't necessarily have a direct, linear impact on offense.  Move the fences in too much and the outfielders have less area to cover.  Part of the reason players used to hit .400 was that most parks had a fence or three that was 450+ feet from the plate, and the lesser athletes of a century ago didn't have a chance to cover all that ground.

I think Norfolk needs to fall prey to the Hilton lobbyists like Baltimore did.  Let them build a monstrosity of a hotel featuring Soviet brutalist architecture looming over left-center field and block all the wind.  Sure, in Norfolk you might have to fill in part of the harbor for that, but what's a little dredging...  It's the least Hilton can do for the city of Baltimore for taking our view of the Bromo Seltzer Tower.

So good to have you back postulating, citing, waxing philosophic and generally being your acerbic self!  Are you on vacay?

[Rene88]

22 hours ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

Especially when the wind really gets going.

Have you ever been to Aberdeen?

Yeah. My father has season tix since it opened. We usually do the crab feast with him. 

[DrungoHazewood]

9 hours ago, bobmc said:

So good to have you back postulating, citing, waxing philosophic and generally being your acerbic self!  Are you on vacay?

Nope, back to work.  Good to hear from you, too, Bob!

[weams]

41 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Nope, back to work.  Good to hear from you, too, Bob!

Here. For you.

 

[Big Al]

I now live in Norfolk, walking distance to a Tide (light rail) station which also has a stop at Harbor Park.  Walking to the station, catching a train and attending a game is wonderful experience.  Stop all this nonsense about changing affiliates or moving to another stadium.