There Are Rumblings That the O's Will Not Take Rutschman

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree with you people here are underrating Vaughn.    I’d still rather pick Rutchman, but if we look back in 10 years and Vaughn has turned out to be Goldschmidt or Freeman, it won’t shock me.   

I do think he will hit.

The question is, is just hitting enough to warrant 1-1?

[weams]

3 minutes ago, jerios55 said:

We were alall kids at some point they said dumb stuff to be funny.  Kids now have the record displayed for the world to see.  Advisors, parents, teams should have players clear things.  While show things should be noted and/or players removed from draft boards for some things, I think helping them grow up and pre-emptively remove questionable things is ok too.

I agree. Any draft eligible with questionable social at this point has a triple red flag on him. 

[Going Underground]

Are We There Yet? 

So how many pages of praise  or negativity after the pick?

[weams]

Just now, Going Underground said:

Are We There Yet? 

So how many pages of praise  or negativity after the pick?

They are in the room.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

 

[BohKnowsBmore]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree with you people here are underrating Vaughn.    I’d still rather pick Rutchman, but if we look back in 10 years and Vaughn has turned out to be Goldschmidt or Freeman, it won’t shock me.   

Not that it's the end-all-be-all, but Vaughn is 5-11.  I'd feel much better about picking him (and the ability of his game to translate to the majors) if he were the size of Goldschmidt (6'3") or Freeman (6'5").

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, BohKnowsBmore said:

Not that it's the end-all-be-all, but Vaughn is 5-11.  I'd feel much better about picking him (and the ability of his game to translate to the majors) if he were the size of Goldschmidt (6'3") or Freeman (6'5").

If Bundy had been 6-3 I bet he would have gone 1-1.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I do think he will hit.

The question is, is just hitting enough to warrant 1-1?

Especially since if Vaughn doesn't hit there isn't much else he brings to the table. AR should hit, but he also projects to be a good defensive catcher. 

[weams]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Especially since if Vaughn doesn't hit there isn't much else he brings to the table. AR should hit, but he also projects to be a good defensive catcher. 

Good defensive catchers who don't hit are not of too much value though. Catcher is an offensive position. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Just now, weams said:

Good defensive catchers who don't hit are not of too much value though. Catcher is an offensive position. 

Agreed. AR needs to hit, but it's not the only skill he brings with him. 

[BohKnowsBmore]

6 minutes ago, weams said:

Good defensive catchers who don't hit are not of too much value though. Catcher is an offensive position. 

Could you clarify this statement?

In 2018, MLB catcher OPS was the lowest of all 8 non-pitcher positions and DH at .678.  The next closest was 2B at .714 followed by CF at .727 and SS at .733.  Same story in 2017 (.726, lowest) and 2016 (.703, lowest).

[weams]

3 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Could you clarify this statement?

In 2018, MLB catcher OPS was the lowest of all 8 non-pitcher positions and DH at .678.  The next closest was 2B at .714 followed by CF at .727 and SS at .733.  Same story in 2017 (.726, lowest) and 2016 (.703, lowest).

I'll clarify. Traditionally catchers need to hit to have a full time gig.  But you are right. All positions are requiring that you hit now. 

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I do think he will hit.

The question is, is just hitting enough to warrant 1-1?

It depends how much.    If he’s Trey Mancini, then no.    If he’s Goldy, then yes, I’d be very happy with that outcome at 1-1 even if someone else turned out better.   (Note: Goldy was an 8th round pick and to date is second in WAR from the 2009 draft, behind only Mike Trout.)

[Sessh]

So, ok. The five tools are hitting for average, hitting for power, defense, arm strength and speed.

If we can be reasonably sure that Vaughn will hit, then that's two tools plus he should be able to carry a high OBP with his plate discipline. His speed is average at best, so what about the other two? Arm strength is moot for a first baseman, isn't it? The only thing I want a better idea on is his defensive ability because that seems to be almost entirely based on his height. I don't care about his height. I care about whether or not he will be a liability or if he can hold his own over there. I don't need him to be a gold glover, but I want to know more though I can't really find anything other than the All Defensive Team last season along with his Golden Spikes award.

So, as a first baseman, only four tools mean anything. He's definitely got two and average on another, so how good or bad is he really defensively? That's the question I have right now.

[Sessh]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

It depends how much.    If he’s Trey Mancini, then no.    If he’s Goldy, then yes, I’d be very happy with that outcome at 1-1 even if someone else turned out better.   (Note: Goldy was an 8th round pick and to date is second in WAR from the 2009 draft, behind only Mike Trout.)

I agree. Vaughn certainly seems to be gifted enough offensively that such a gamble isn't all that unreasonable at all. I would take the bet that he'll be closer to Goldschmidt than Mancini.