USAToday: Boras Quotes

[oriole]

Boras is looking at it through the lens of an agent and his one and only motivator is money. I don’t care what he has to say. If there was a spending cap things would look a whole lot more even but we all know that’ll never happen so teams must adapt and work within the construct of mega teams vs teams developed through a rebuild of some sort. 

[Ohfan67]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You can be bad without tanking.

Heck you can trade off expiring assets while being bad without tanking.  Yankees did it, worked out really well for them.

Taking a team and tearing it down to a bare framework is not the only way to build a winner, even if you don't have unlimited payroll.

 

I agree. But of course the Orioles organization was a complete mess and really did need to be taken down to the bare framework. Organizations like St. Louis are among the very best top to bottom. Organizations like the Orioles were marginally or run to to bottom. The Tigers organization ran itself into the ground. I think the Orioles and a few other organizations were best served with a complete organizational rebuild. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Ohfan67 said:

I agree. But of course the Orioles organization was a complete mess and really did need to be taken down to the bare framework. Organizations like St. Louis are among the very best top to bottom. Organizations like the Orioles were marginally or run to to bottom. The Tigers organization ran itself into the ground. I think the Orioles and a few other organizations were best served with a complete organizational rebuild. 

Sure, I'm on board with that view.

[Ohfan67]

p.s. The distribution of cash between the owners and players is and will become a bigger problem. That's a related issue that I think is far more serious than the supposed tanking crisis. Just my opinion. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

Could do a lottery system like the NBA. I'm not convinced it would change anything since the MLB draft is so unpredictable, but Boras is not wrong.

NBA teams still tank with the lottery system in place. MLB would have to think about any plan to implement a draft lottery carefully if the goal is to end tanking. 

[mdbdotcom]

39 minutes ago, luismatos4prez said:

I agree with Boras. Tanking is detrimental to the league.

I'm a broken record. But the fact that some think non-tendering Villar (or similar moves) is good strategy is frustrating to me. What does that ~$10M saved do for the club? What do they do with that money that's more productive than having a good baseball player play for the baseball team?

Winning 62 games instead of 58 means something to the fans that attend/watch those 4 games. And the payroll is already plenty low enough for a rebuild. About $65M without deferred money this year. About $80M lower than it was 2 years ago. Good for 29th in the majors last year, maybe low enough for 30th this year. And that's with Villar, Givens, Mancini, etc.

Non-tendering Villar is an awful idea. Trading him is fine, but I don't want to see a cash dump trade like Jim Johnson for Weeks. Villar's a valuable asset even with a high salary.

Unless he has a bad year, and then everyone will complain about not dumping him.

[HowAboutThat]

35 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

I don't think your suggestion is quite the fix-all that you believe it to be. It doesn't eliminate this so-called incentive to lose.. you'd still have to be a bad team. It doesn't incentivize winning, imo. It would create a tank war between the last and next-to-last teams within most divisions for the last part of each season. It gives hope to many more teams of stealing that no. 1 overall pick.

That’s a valid point, but remember that every solution comes with its own set of problems, and I think this particular solution solves more problems than it creates. I don’t think it would create a sudden losing war between the  last two teams in every division,  because for most of them, losing enough to be the best of the worst would involve taking a step back, And they are already going to have a high pick anyway, so it is unlikely to be worth it.

 I do see your point, but I don’t think that is a major Impediment.

[mdbdotcom]

The Orioles actively prepped themselves for tanking by trading their top pitching prospects, not participating internationally in a meaningful way and by forfeiting their top draft picks to sign less than stellar free agents. Boras was probably just as happy with their dependence on the free agent market then as he is upset with their tanking. Can't have it both ways. If you're going to help the Chris Davis and Ubaldo Jimienez types get out of this world contracts, don't complain when the teams that signed them fall to earth and have to start over. No, Boras doesn't make the owners sign the deals, but he plays the system hard one way. He shouldn't be surprised when the inevitable reckoning comes.

Note:I don't know who Ubaldo's agent was. if it wasn't Boras, it doesn't matter; he's just an example.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Brewers lost 94 games in 2015 and managed to win 96 and make the playoffs last year without tanking.  The Cardinals have never tanked.  Giants built their mini dynasty without tanking (unless you count 90 and 91 loss seasons as tanking).

I think the strategy depends on the team’s situation.    When your team wins 47 games while trying to win, is stuck with a $23 mm/yr contract for a terrible player, has a poor minor league system and has several of its better players reaching the end of their productive years for the team (due to age or looming free agency) — it’s time to tank.   I literally don’t think the Orioles had any other rational choice.     Hopefully Elias can put them into a position where, once they become good again, they can be better at keeping a stream of good talent in the pipeline and not have to resort to putting all the chips in the center of the table and then tanking when that hand has been played.   

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think the strategy depends on the team’s situation.    When your team wins 47 games while trying to win, is stuck with a $23 mm/yr contract for a terrible player, has a poor minor league system and has several of its better players reaching the end of their productive years for the team (due to age or looming free agency) — it’s time to tank.   I literally don’t think the Orioles had any other rational choice.     Hopefully Elias can put them into a position where, once they become good again, they can be better at keeping a stream of good talent in the pipeline and not have to resort to putting all the chips in the center of the table and then tanking when that hand has been played.   

I'm in agreement.   I had issue with the statement "Tanking is really the only way to go ".

[TonySoprano]

Corrupt system and yet he's not shy about telling the Yankees they need to open their checkbook (for his clients)

Quote

“Each franchise has windows of opportunity. I think everybody, when they talk about the Yankees, I think everyone views them as a now team. They view them as a club that is very capable of being really, really successful over a four-year or so period. And certainly, they’re in a great place to take advantage of that."

 

[Frobby]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I'm in agreement.   I had issue with the statement "Tanking is really the only way to go ".

He should have added “for the Orioles.”   Maybe that’s what he meant, I dunno.

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, thezeroes said:

$25 to $30 Million GOOD???  with three to four years remaining on the same dollar amount???

The idea is the early years are at a surplus, which subsidizes the later years.    Nobody thinks a guy is going to be worth $30 in his last few years, but if he’s worth $50 mm in the early years and is only being paid $30 mm then it can be worthwhile.    

[interloper]

It's so much more than just "losing to get draft picks". That's selling a true rebuild a little short IMO. 

Teams aren't to blame, MLB is, obviously. I don't really have a problem with it. Rebuilding/tanking can be quicker than digging yourself out of multiple years of stupid spending in the guise of competing. Fooling yourself into competing can sink a team for decades, as we know. 

[Moose Milligan]

First of all, I can't get mad at Boras for getting the most amount of money for his clients that he can.  That is the job of any agent.  People act like it's a bad thing but that's what he's hired to do.

Second, there's no reason to win 70 games.  Billy Beane said it best...I can't remember the exact words, but he said either you're contending or rebuilding and anything else in the middle is a waste.