Waiving/non-tendering Villar: pro or con?

[Frobby]

Not meaning to preempt the other thread, just wanted to do a poll.

[section18]

Now I know why my season ticket rep contacted me today.. Why would I renew after releasing one of our best players instead of trading him.  If they are going to use the money to sign Mike Moustakas on a short term deal for a little more money (probably $11 million per year) I'm okay with it.  Villar will be a Red Sox 2B before you can say No Playoffs for us for a few more years.

[Beef Supreme]

I am not a big fan of Villar, but the decision seems premature to me. Is the decision driven in part by the upcoming Rule 5 draft? Also, I am thinking the team might have won an arbitration hearing by offering @ $7MM; I think MLBTR's projected $10.7MM arbitration award is wildly high. And $7MM would not have been such an egregiously high salary to maintain the appearance of trying to compete.

 

[DirtyBird]

What if I don’t know and don’t defer to Elias’s judgement?

[SilverRocket]

Is there a reason they have to make this decision now as opposed to later in the offseason?

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, SilverRocket said:

Is there a reason they have to make this decision now as opposed to later in the offseason?

Deadline to tender is Monday.

[Tony-OH]

This is an awful descion by the Orioles. They already have a low payroll and now they are DFAing one their best players because his Arbitration number? This is a middle finger to their fans. We all understand this is a rebuild, but you dont just release players who are good. This is an awful competitive and fan move. It's actually quite embarrassing to do this as well as you just made yourself the laughing stock of baseball.

This is a major warning sign that Elias is not being given the money to put out even a respectable product. If they had traded him I would have gotten the move, but to just DFA him after the year he had is embarrassing. Its embarrasing to baseball and slap on the face to their fans, even the ones who understand they are in a rebuild. 

I have been completely onboarding with what Elias has been doing with this rebuild until this move. I'm now embarrassed as a fan and can give no reasonable excuse for this move as a person who has covered this team for 24 years.

[jeffstonefan]

Are the Orioles soon to be for sale? I mean it. Hasn't been discussed much. Maybe I'm way off base here. This DFA doesn't make any sense to me. Even during a known rebuild.

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, jeffstonefan said:

Are the Orioles soon to be for sale? I mean it. Hasn't been discussed much. Maybe I'm way off base here. This DFA doesn't make any sense to me. Even during a known rebuild.

I wouldn't put anything out of the question at this point. How can you trust an organization to do the right thing when they do something like this?

[Camden_yardbird]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This is an awful descion by the Orioles. They already have a low payroll and now they are DFAing one their best players because his Arbitration number? This is a middle finger to their fans. We all understand this is a rebuild, but you dont just release players who are good. This is an awful competitive and fan move. It's actually quite embarrassing to do this as well as you just made yourself the laughing stock of baseball.

This is a major warning sign that Elias is not being given the money to put out even a respectable product. If they had traded him I would have gotten the move, but to just DFA him after the year he had is embarrassing. Its embarrasing to baseball and slap on the face to their fans, even the ones who understand they are in a rebuild. 

I have been completely onboarding with what Elias has been doing with this rebuild until this move. I'm now embarrassed as a fan and can give no reasonable excuse for this move as a person who has covered this team for 24 years.

I agree.  This is a real head scratcher to me.  It makes no sense what so ever if you have even minimal resources for the season.

[gtown]

Awful decision.  The payroll is already low, someone please explain the point? Villar could easily have trade value at the deadline. If this were about prospects, how does getting nothing for him help?

I agree with Tony--this is a middle finger to the fans.

[DirtyBird]

26 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This is an awful descion by the Orioles. They already have a low payroll and now they are DFAing one their best players because his Arbitration number? This is a middle finger to their fans. We all understand this is a rebuild, but you dont just release players who are good. This is an awful competitive and fan move. It's actually quite embarrassing to do this as well as you just made yourself the laughing stock of baseball.

This is a major warning sign that Elias is not being given the money to put out even a respectable product. If they had traded him I would have gotten the move, but to just DFA him after the year he had is embarrassing. Its embarrasing to baseball and slap on the face to their fans, even the ones who understand they are in a rebuild. 

I have been completely onboarding with what Elias has been doing with this rebuild until this move. I'm now embarrassed as a fan and can give no reasonable excuse for this move as a person who has covered this team for 24 years.

I take it you voted “I’m against”?

[atomic]

I didn’t think we would get enough in Villar to make it worth trading him.  I am not under any delusions that he make us a winning team.  We will stink either way without additional pitching.

But Villar was the one position player that you could say “He is a good player”.  Mancini could hit but was atrocious in the outfield.  Villar has speed, power, hit for a decent average and could play an adequate shortstop. 

I don’t care that he is not going to be on the next good team.  It is horrible enough to go through these horrible seasons and see guys who have no business being on a major league team.  

Last season we had bright spots in Villar, Alberto and Means. it was going to be nice to see guys like Hays and Mountcatle added to the mix and see if the team could begin its road to improvement. Maybe Mancini could be moved to DH.

We can see Davis hit .170 again and have a revolving door of starting pitching waiver claims to help us pass the time.
 

[ScGO's]

I deferred to Elias' judgement.  Trying to look at as objectively as possible, these are the factors that I think would influence Elias to make this move.

1) Totally exhausted his market and nobody was biting on his price.  After seeing Villar through the market at the Trade Deadline and now the offseason he probably has a good idea of what his return would be at this year's trade deadline for his predicted outcome and doesn't see the value in paying Villar 10 Million for his return in a trade. 

2) He may have a need for money to invest in things he feels are more crucial for the organization's sustained success.  Perhaps new international facilities.  Updated computer/analytics systems, new hires, etc. 

3) As Villar will not be here the next time we win, Elias felt the roster spot needed to be opened up for this year's round of tryouts, especially with 26 spots.

4) Does Davis' and Cobb's contracts force these guys (Bundy, Villar, etc) out quicker than we'd like?  Can we blame Elias for that if he has to consider the owner's demand to turn a profit?

5) Is it possible putting Villar on waivers is a tactic to stir up a quick market where none existed before. forcing a team to take a risk on adding a possible asset and filling a need before another contender does?

I enjoyed watching Villar, and I hope(d) that we'd be able to get a return, even a Cashner-esque one.  But I'm hoping Elias explains his decision making process after Villar's fate is sealed.  It would be nice to hear where he is allocating the savings.

 

 

 

[HowAboutThat]

I’m a bit unclear on the motive. Ten million isn’t nothing, but the difference between what it and what the Orioles were willing to pay can’t any be any more than the guaranteed 3 mill they gave Chris Tillman to throw 30+ embarrassing innings.

On the other hand, it’s quite clear that no one else wanted him under the same financial constraints, so it’s obvious that the team is correct. Villar ISNT worth ten million. Else someone would give it to him. The waiver gamble, as I understand it, is that a team WILL give it to him, because claiming him off waivers means they claim the arbitration obligations too, right?(if that’s NOT right please LMK.)

So, Occam’s Razor says they are hoping to resign him at a much lower wage, because letting him go for nothing to save a couple mill is illogical. But they are willing to risk losing him completely and this move makes it clear to his agent how the wind blows.

I’m pretty sure Elias laid some ground rules when he took the job and being cheap just to be cheap is one of his dealbreakers.

So I’m willing to wait and see what happens.

BTW this probably guarantees an infielder Rule 5 pick