Waiving/non-tendering Villar: pro or con?

[Legend_Of_Joey]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

This is an awful descion by the Orioles. They already have a low payroll and now they are DFAing one their best players because his Arbitration number? This is a middle finger to their fans. We all understand this is a rebuild, but you dont just release players who are good. This is an awful competitive and fan move. It's actually quite embarrassing to do this as well as you just made yourself the laughing stock of baseball.

This is a major warning sign that Elias is not being given the money to put out even a respectable product. If they had traded him I would have gotten the move, but to just DFA him after the year he had is embarrassing. Its embarrasing to baseball and slap on the face to their fans, even the ones who understand they are in a rebuild. 

I have been completely onboarding with what Elias has been doing with this rebuild until this move. I'm now embarrassed as a fan and can give no reasonable excuse for this move as a person who has covered this team for 24 years.

I agree with this, but have one question about something you mentioned:

Is it a major warning sign about Elias not being given the money, or was this more of an Elias decision? We know how Peter was, but are the kids more "hands off" when it comes to letting the GM make decisions? If this is the owners/kids saying "save this money," then that is one thing. If it is all Elias, then it comes off as something else, especially the timing.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

I'm hoping Elias explains his decision making process after Villar's fate is sealed.  It would be nice to hear where he is allocating the savings.

“Jonathan is a very good player.   He had an excellent year and is in line for a substantial pay raise.   Unfortunately, in this stage of the team’s progression we sometimes have to make tough decisions about what’s in the long term interest of the club.    We are concentrating our resources on having a championship team in Baltimore as soon as we can, and we are not at the stage where this was the best use of resources.”

Book it, Elias’ statement will be some version of this, no more detailed than what I wrote.  
 

 

[Can_of_corn]

The Tillman deal was under the Peter not his sons.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

I agree with this, but have one question about something you mentioned:

Is it a major warning sign about Elias not being given the money, or was this more of an Elias decision? We know how Peter was, but are the kids more "hands off" when it comes to letting the GM make decisions? If this is the owners/kids saying "save this money," then that is one thing. If it is all Elias, then it comes off as something else, especially the timing.

I think that Elias and the Brothers Angelos had a long detailed discussion about finances when he was hired.  I think the way the Astros managed to shed payroll was a plus.

[24fps]

I'm so very, very sick of the argument that so-and-so won't be here for the next competitive Orioles team.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that Elias and the Brothers Angelos had a long detailed discussion about finances when he was hired.  I think the way the Astros managed to shed payroll was a plus.

Admittedly, it is always a lot better to watch another team dismantle itself when there is no rooting interest in them.

[atomic]

9 minutes ago, 24fps said:

I'm so very, very sick of the argument that so-and-so won't be here for the next competitive Orioles team.

Yeah and it is a never ending argument.  First tell us when we will be competitive again.  It a moving yardstick currently.

[atomic]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that Elias and the Brothers Angelos had a long detailed discussion about finances when he was hired.  I think the way the Astros managed to shed payroll was a plus.

I think it is the reason he was hired.  Remember the sons thought about keeping DD after he pulled off that excellent Gausman trade. I think their main concern is profit. 

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, atomic said:

Yeah and it is a never ending argument.  First tell us when we will be competitive again.  It a moving yardstick currently.

He’s never given a timetable.    I basically judge him by how long it took the Astros.    And I like to see progress in development even if it hasn’t translated to the majors yet.   So far, I think preliminary indications are good on that front:

- Lots of our better prospects had good seasons and developed well.

- Lots of players we drafted in June had good debuts.    

- To me, we made very good progress with our Latin American program.   

- On paper, I like many of the people he’s hired.    

Is anything happening on the major league level that’s particularly exciting?   Shrug.   Means’ development into a solid pitcher was nice, Mancini had a very nice rebound season, Alberto turned out to be more useful than expected.     But certainly Elias hasn’t made any brilliant player moves at the major league level yet.    Nor would I have expected him to at this point.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, DirtyBird said:

I take it you voted “I’m against”?

You think?

I was enjoying a nice sunset in Siesta Key when i got a text from a friend about this news. Almost ruined my night! I've been 100% supportive of Elias since he took over, but this is my first shot across the bow from him. Is this team going to be the Rays now where we expect to lose our good players? Is this organization really in a situation where they can't pay Villar around $10 million a year? I don't see why any fan would pay a dime to watch this team is this is what they think about their fans.

[Frobby]

If we are like the Rays, fine with me.     They’ve been competitive a lot more often than the O’s.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

I agree with this, but have one question about something you mentioned:

Is it a major warning sign about Elias not being given the money, or was this more of an Elias decision? We know how Peter was, but are the kids more "hands off" when it comes to letting the GM make decisions? If this is the owners/kids saying "save this money," then that is one thing. If it is all Elias, then it comes off as something else, especially the timing.

That's a great question and something  I don't know the answer to. If he was forced to shed that contract then that says a lot about the current ownership. It shows they have absolutely no interest in spending any money at all until they can vaguely be expected to compete. That's not good news. 

I would not be surprised if the Orioles set records for lowest attendance in modern baseball next year. Why would anyone pay to see a team that won't even keep one of their best players over $3 million. 

[Tony-OH]

BTW, I'm dumbfounded that anyone could be for this move. I'd like to really understand that line of thinking.

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

If we are like the Rays, fine with me.     They’ve been competitive a lot more often than the O’s.

You want to be a team that wins with nobody's every year only to see those good players traded away and the team always come up short? No thanks. The Rays have incredible management that does the most with what they are given, but if they even had average resources and could keep their decent players they might actually win a World Series and may have a real fan base.

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That's a great question and something  I don't know the answer to. If he was forced to shed that contract then that says a lot about the current ownership. It shows they have absolutely no interest in spending any money at all until they can vaguely be expected to compete. That's not good news. 

I would not be surprised if the Orioles set records for lowest attendance in modern baseball next year. Why would anyone pay to see a team that won't even keep one of their best players over $3 million. 

They need to shed another half a million to get to the Marlins' level.