The defense thread, 2020

[ScGO's]

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

8/18, Game 23

The Jays scored the winning run when Pedro Severino couldn’t handle a one-bounce throw Chris Davis made from the seat of his pants after making a diving stop of a grounder.   It was scored an error on Davis, but to me the blame was squarely Severino’s.   I guess any bounced throw gets scored as an error on whoever threw the ball, but this was an accurate one-hopper with a true bounce, in plenty of time to get the runner, made while Davis was literally sitting on his fanny.     Charging him with an error there is criminal.

 https://www.mlb.com/gameday/blue-jays-vs-orioles/2020/08/18/631681#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=631681

(Scroll to “Travis Shaw scores go-ahead run”)

Davis doesn't deserve that error.  Sevy has to catch that. Not even a short hop or in between hop there.  Stay low, snag it, and put that tag on him.

[Aristotelian]

Terrific play by Davis. Also fielded a bunt perfectly on the leadoff hitter. Davis has finally found his role: extra innings defensive 1B sub. I have to say it was a genius move by Hyde to put him in there that very nearly paid off, and should have. 

[Ruzious]

35 minutes ago, Frobby said:

8/18, Game 23

The Jays scored the winning run when Pedro Severino couldn’t handle a one-bounce throw Chris Davis made from the seat of his pants after making a diving stop of a grounder.   It was scored an error on Davis, but to me the blame was squarely Severino’s.   I guess any bounced throw gets scored as an error on whoever threw the ball, but this was an accurate one-hopper with a true bounce, in plenty of time to get the runner, made while Davis was literally sitting on his fanny.     Charging him with an error there is criminal.

 https://www.mlb.com/gameday/blue-jays-vs-orioles/2020/08/18/631681#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=631681

(Scroll to “Travis Shaw scores go-ahead run”)

It's certainly not criminal to give Davis the error.  It was a nice stop by him - but that was not a hard play for an average 1st baseman - his lack of range made it look much harder than it was.  And he had plenty of time to throw - since he was in and the ball was hard hit.  He didn't have to throw it with his feet in the air.  Should Severino have caught that - Yes, but that was a bad throw by Davis.  

[DrungoHazewood]

18 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Terrific play by Davis. Also fielded a bunt perfectly on the leadoff hitter. Davis has finally found his role: extra innings defensive 1B sub. I have to say it was a genius move by Hyde to put him in there that very nearly paid off, and should have. 

He's the new Mike Squires!  Or maybe Dave Stapleton.  A little peek into what the Majors would be like if they had rosters the size of NCAA football teams.  You could have Brian Matusz on staff just to face David Oritz.  Chris Davis to play defense 17 innings a year.  Two or three outfielders with absurd arms ad nothing else just in case the winning run is on third base.

[Frobby]

 Hyde on 10th inning miscues: “To me, that was just a great play getting to the ball and he was trying to make a game-saving play. No fault for that. Just him catching the ball saved a run there. Just tried to make a great play and it kind of skipped up on Sevie when he threw it from his rear end. I give credit to CD for getting to the ball on a tough ball down the line.

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2020/08/santanders-two-homers-still-leave-os-short-in-8-7-loss.html

[NCRaven]

I do not believe Severino is a better defensive catcher than Sisco.  But both are very hitterish  right now.

[CarrRun49]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

It's a near certainty that Diaz is a better defensive outfielder than Mountcastle.  He's always been an outfielder.  Mountcastle has always been a guy searching for a position.  But it is also very likely that Mountcastle is a better hitter.

Cedric Mullins is also an outfielder that has always been an outfielder.  Does that make him better than Mountcastle too?

[DrungoHazewood]

11 minutes ago, CarrRun49 said:

Cedric Mullins is also an outfielder that has always been an outfielder.  Does that make him better than Mountcastle too?

A better outfielder?  Sure.  I'm pretty confident in saying that.  Mountcastle might be a LFer.  Mullins is at least a passable CFer.

[Bubble Buddy]

7 hours ago, CarrRun49 said:

The guy has yet to play 1 AAA game.  How is he a safer choice? 

I was referencing him being a safer choice in that context because at least he's been an outfielder for a long time and wouldn't be learning anew at the MLB level. IMO, yes, Mountcastle is ready offensively, but I think it makes sense to get him some reps in the OF if we're gonna put him there. 

Either isn't quite where we'd like them to be, but if I'm picking one over the other, I'd like to see Mountcastle have a defensive foundation and position (in theory) before throwing him out there. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Bubble Buddy

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Bubble Buddy said:

I was referencing him being a safer choice in that context because at least he's been an outfielder for a long time and wouldn't be learning anew at the MLB level. IMO, yes, Mountcastle is ready offensively, but I think it makes sense to get him some reps in the OF if we're gonna put him there. 

How?  Did Wilkerson get a bunch of outfield reps?  Did Mancini?

How many games do you think a guy needs to be an upgrade over Smtih?

It's all about service time manipulation with Mountcastle, has been since last season.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Bubble Buddy said:

I was referencing him being a safer choice in that context because at least he's been an outfielder for a long time and wouldn't be learning anew at the MLB level. IMO, yes, Mountcastle is ready offensively, but I think it makes sense to get him some reps in the OF if we're gonna put him there. 

What's the worst that can happen?  He fall down trying to get a ball and end up with a concussion?  No way that could happen to a guy that played a bunch of outfield in the minors.

[Bubble Buddy]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What's the worst that can happen?  He fall down trying to get a ball and end up with a concussion?  No way that could happen to a guy that played a bunch of outfield in the minors.

 

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How?  Did Wilkerson get a bunch of outfield reps?  Did Mancini?

How many games do you think a guy needs to be an upgrade over Smtih?

It's all about service time manipulation with Mountcastle, has been since last season.

Mountcastle may already be an upgrade over Smith, but that says nothing. Wilkerson certainly surpised, although he's not much of a prospect so we didn't have much to lose. 

If Mountcastle was destined to be a DH, then by all means bring him up. But I think there's value in trying to bring him along at a pace that's best for him. Perhaps that pace is more coaching and instruction before we try to pass him as an OF? That's my main point. 

Unfortunately, normally we'd get to track his progress defensively in the minors. We don't get to see how he's being coached and the reps he's getting. 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Bubble Buddy

[Bubble Buddy]

And I'm not against bringing him up. I just also don't mind if the organization keeps him down a bit for whatever reasons they have. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Bubble Buddy said:

 

Mountcastle may already be an upgrade over Smith, but that says nothing. Wilkerson certainly surpised, although he's not much of a prospect so we didn't have much to lose. 

If Mountcastle was destined to be a DH, then by all means bring him up. But I think there's value in trying to bring him along at a pace that's best for him. Perhaps that pace is more coaching and instruction before we try to pass him as an OF? That's my main point. It's a plausible scenario. 

 

 

It isn't plausible.

Can you name any player that needed this many reps to learn to play LEFT FIELD?  If he hasn't gotten it yet more time taking fungos at Bowie ain't going to fix him.

This is not about his ability to play left field.

 

[Bubble Buddy]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It isn't plausible.

Can you name any player that needed this many reps to learn to play LEFT FIELD?  If he hasn't gotten it yet more time taking fungos at Bowie ain't going to fix him.

This is not about his ability to play left field.

 

I understand your distrust of the organization. I also understand the service time manipulation game. But I also don't find reason to be overly critical of Elias yet and I don't mind taking him at his word for now.

 And again, if he's BSing because of service time, well, that's an MLB wide problem, not just us. 

The article below mentions in detail the work they are doing with Mountcastle. 

"Executive vice president/general manager Mike Elias said this was “a unique opportunity to get some real development done,” both with his plate discipline and at his new position in left field. Mountcastle is getting targeted coaching at both."

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-ryan-mountcastle-bowie-camp-20200807-getfuiiepnetbjofa7vhkcd2xa-story.html

Edited August 19, 2020 by Bubble Buddy