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If only Elias hadn't traded the 11th best player in baseball (Bundy) for next to nothing

Rojo13

By Rojo13
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wildcard
wildcard

Dan Duquette was a good GM for the O's.  There is that what you are looking for?   Dan had a tough job.   Peter Angelos was not easy to work for and did not give Dan a free hand to do what he wanted.

Can_of_corn
Can_of_corn

Are you telling me you've been on the internet this long and haven't mastered the art of having an opinion without relying on data?

Frobby
Frobby

I have no idea if I like the return we got for Bundy, considering none of the four have pitched this year.   

DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Saying that, I'm glad Elias is here now and has installed the technology and analytics while putting a new found emphasis on international scouting and signings that was never done under the Duquette regime.

I think the biggest change in the past five years was Peter Angelos pulling back from running the club. The sons seem to allow the GM freedoms that the father never did.  Thrift was well past his expiration date, but I think Beattie, Flanagan, MacPhail, and Duquette would have behaved quite differently under different ownership.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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Posted
Just now, Natty said:

In the 5 seasons since we let Cruz go, he averaged 40.8 HR and 104.4 RBI each year. Not counting this season. And he is tied for the league lead in HRs now. 

And if you look at his top comps on bb-ref from his early 30s they're guys like Henry Rodriguez (last good year at 32), Gus Zernial (34), Kevin Mitchell (played 135 games after the age of 32), Jeromy Burnitz (2 WAR after 32), David Justice (last 2-win season at 34).

Cruz is an outlier among outliers.  If you make a habit of signing players like him to that contract you'll get fired pretty quickly.

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Natty Hangout Veteran Council

Natty

Posted
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2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think the biggest change in the past five years was Peter Angelos pulling back from running the club. The sons seem to allow the GM freedoms that the father never did.  Thrift was well past his expiration date, but I think Beattie, Flanagan, MacPhail, and Duquette would have behaved quite differently under different ownership.

Peter Angelos did get us Albert Belle without even discussing it with anyone else. 

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CallMeBrooksie Major Leaguer

CallMeBrooksie

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1 minute ago, Natty said:

In the 5 seasons since we let Cruz go, he averaged 40.8 HR and 104.4 RBI each year. Not counting this season. And he is tied for the league lead in HRs now. 

Nobody is arguing that he hasn't been great since leaving here.. but it doesn't change that it was the correct move to make at that time. The O's would have probably been in much better shape roster-wise had they made more decisions like that in that timeframe. It's unfortunate that they didn't have the conviction to treat Trumbo and Davis the same way. 

 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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3 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

Nobody is arguing that he hasn't been great since leaving here.. but it doesn't change that it was the correct move to make at that time. The O's would have probably been in much better shape roster-wise had they made more decisions like that in that timeframe. It's unfortunate that they didn't have the conviction to treat Trumbo and Davis the same way. 

 

I wonder if Trumbo would have received a contract from another team with the pick compensation attached?

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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15 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

MacPhail gets some credit, but he was unwilling to do any number of things that Duquette did that pushed them over the top.  I think Duquette's strength was finding those Weaver-like underutilized assets, and getting Buck to properly deploy them.  They got the last good 500 at bats out of Nate McLouth, they got Steve Pearce and 100 solid ABs out of Jim Thome, and built an amazing bullpen out of random guys like Jim Johnson and Luis Ayala and O'Day and Strop and Patton and Britton.

MacPhail was very passive, not very creative.  His hands were tied like all the other GMs, and his reaction was to fall back on the draft and hope it worked out.  That's an over-simplification, but he was very conservative.  Right down to the sweater!

I agree with a lot of this and alluded to it in another post.

 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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3 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

Would have been worth a shot. I seem to recall it took a while until any player actually accepted the QO. Wasn't Wieters the first?

The O's gave him a QO and he turned it down.  Then they signed him anyway.

I'm just curious if Trumbo would have signed with another team before the next draft.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

Posted
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15 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

Nobody is arguing that he hasn't been great since leaving here.. but it doesn't change that it was the correct move to make at that time. The O's would have probably been in much better shape roster-wise had they made more decisions like that in that timeframe. It's unfortunate that they didn't have the conviction to treat Trumbo and Davis the same way. 

 

Exactly.  If anyone tells me that they knew Trumbo and Davis would tank and Cruz would go Hank Aaron on us I'm calling BS.  The safe thing is to just not sign any of them, and the takeaway from all that is if you want a first baseman/DH who can hit 30 homers there's plenty to go around.  The O's acquired Trumbo for backup catcher Steve Clevinger, they got Davis and Tommy Hunter for a year and couple months of Koji, and they got Cruz for a bargain bin free agent deal.

Here's a good rule for GMs: never take a mid-career guy you signed for $5M and give him a $50M (or $150M!) deal.

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scbalt52 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

scbalt52

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Posted

This will get bumped in 3 years and then we can have somewhat of an opinion on it. Personally, like Arrieta, I thought Bundy would've had a shot at being dropped from our rotation if they stayed, the same year they won/almost won the Cy Young with the next team. It happens, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Just laugh and keep on building, we're heading in the right direction. We're a half game out of a playoff spot on September 9th and we're "3-5 years away"! Try to enjoy it.

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