Forbes: O’s made a $57 mm profit in 2019

[Frobby]

https://www.forbes.com/teams/baltimore-orioles/#44560d4c76db

Not sure how the annual Forbes article escaped notice when it was published this spring.   It shows the following for the O’s for 2019 (2018 in parentheses):

Revenue: $256 mm ($251 mm)

Net Income: $57 mm (-$6.5 mm)

Gate Receipts: $35 mm ($42 mm)

Player Expenses: $103 mm ($161 mm)

Non-Player Expenses: $96 mm ($96.5 mm)

To me the most interesting line above is the last one: non-player expenses basically flat.*    If we thought that a good bit of the money saved on payroll last year was going to be plowed into infrastructure, hi tech equipment, upgrading facilities etc., it appears we thought wrong.    Looks like the savings went straight to the owners’ bottom line.     I have to admit, that surprises me.    I do think we spent a good bit on that stuff, but apparently that money came from cuts in other types of non-payroll expenses.

I’ll caution that the Forbes numbers are pretty superficial and who knows how reliable they are.   But, they’re all we get.    

It’s also interesting to see the O’s revenue up by $5 mm despite gate receipts being down by $7 mm.   So that’s $12 mm in extra revenue from somewhere.   Probably national TV money.   

* The non-player expenses are not explicitly published by Forbes.   I calculated them as follows: 
Revenue - Net Income - Player Expenses = Non-Player Expenses.

 

[Can_of_corn]

Pretty close to what I expected.

Rebuilds always have the side effect of dumping money into the pockets of ownership.

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Pretty close to what I expected.

Rebuilds always have the side effect of dumping money into the pockets of ownership.

I am fine with the team profiting from payroll cuts during times when the team is bound to be bad/mediocre, so long as they spend In times when it will help their team to contend.    I’m just surprised that non-player expenses aren’t up by, say, $5-10 mm.   The O’s already were dead last on those expenses in 2018.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I am fine with the team profiting from payroll cuts during times when the team is bound to be bad/mediocre, so long as they spend In times when it will help their team to contend.    I’m just surprised that non-player expenses aren’t up by, say, $5-10 mm.   The O’s already were dead last on those expenses in 2018.

You've read enough of my tin foil hat theories to know that I'm not surprised.  

It is disappointing.

[ScGO's]

26 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I am fine with the team profiting from payroll cuts during times when the team is bound to be bad/mediocre, so long as they spend In times when it will help their team to contend.    I’m just surprised that non-player expenses aren’t up by, say, $5-10 mm.   The O’s already were dead last on those expenses in 2018.

What are non-player expenses?  Like the electric bill, salaries of other employees, cleaning supplies,  etc?

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

What are non-player expenses?  Like the electric bill, salaries of other employees, cleaning supplies,  etc?

We were told it would be Edgertronic high speed cameras.

[Sports Guy]

I guess if you want to put a lot of belief in these numbers, it could be an issue...thats a big if for me though.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I guess if you want to put a lot of belief in these numbers, it could be an issue...thats a big if for me though.

Even if you think the numbers are incorrect I think comparing the yearly totals have value.  You have to assume that one year is going to be as accurate as the next.  I don't think they just suddenly missed 5M in spending in 2019.

[weams]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Pretty close to what I expected.

Rebuilds always have the side effect of dumping money into the pockets of ownership.

What is the average ROI on a billion and a half dollar investment, annualized. Equity notwithstanding. 

[Sports Guy]

33 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Even if you think the numbers are incorrect I think comparing the yearly totals have value.  You have to assume that one year is going to be as accurate as the next.  I don't think they just suddenly missed 5M in spending in 2019.

If you think Elias came in and didn’t spend a lot more money on the infrastructure than they did before him, I don’t know what to tell you.

We really have no idea what’s reported, what’s not, how the organization could break off some of these costs, etc...

It’s very possible that some things are done under a different corporate name..I mean, we know the Os don’t count the MASN revenue with their revenue.  They view them as separate entities.  
 

I just don’t put much weight into these numbers.

Heres what I know..the team can sustain a budget a payroll of 130-160m while also spending what is needed in the draft, international signings and proper infrastructure for development, etc...

As long as they do that (the payroll will go back up, I’m not concerned about that right now), I don’t care if they make a billion dollars a year.

The issue, for me, comes when they try to cry woe is me and have to dump a player over a few million or something like that.  They should take on contracts to “buy prospects” and things like that.

[DrungoHazewood]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

To me the most interesting line above is the last one: non-player expenses basically flat.*    If we thought that a good bit of the money saved on payroll last year was going to be plowed into infrastructure, hi tech equipment, upgrading facilities etc., it appears we thought wrong.    Looks like the savings went straight to the owners’ bottom line.     I have to admit, that surprises me.    I do think we spent a good bit on that stuff, but apparently that money came from cuts in other types of non-payroll expenses.

* The non-player expenses are not explicitly published by Forbes.   I calculated them as follows: 
Revenue - Net Income - Player Expenses = Non-Player Expenses.

 

I would like to know how Forbes comes up with that number.  I don't think there are any publicly available sources for that, so they either have to have inside sources with each team or the league, or they're guessing.

[TINSTAAPP]

 

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I am fine with the team profiting from payroll cuts during times when the team is bound to be bad/mediocre, so long as they spend In times when it will help their team to contend.    I’m just surprised that non-player expenses aren’t up by, say, $5-10 mm.   The O’s already were dead last on those expenses in 2018.

Don't the Orioles owe the Nationals $99 million based on the results of the MASN lawsuit? Maybe they're trying to pocket as much money as possible in order to make those payments in the future.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, ScGO's said:

What are non-player expenses?  Like the electric bill, salaries of other employees, cleaning supplies,  etc?

Yes.  The IT department.  The cleaning people.  Rent.  Facility maintenance.  The analytics department.  If the Orioles employ 300 people (besides players) at an average loaded salary of 100k that's $30M.

From a recent post on Bill James' site, with the question being something like "what looks different from the inside of a MLB organization since you worked for the Red Sox":

Quote

There are many things that look tremendously different from the inside.   I suppose I would have to write a book to explain them all, but, for example:

The number one thing that you learn, from working inside the game, is how many people contribute to a championship.  It's just an unimaginable number.  Scouts. . .and it doesn't really start with scouts, but somebody has to see the player, on behalf of the organization, and say that he could be really good.  There somebody else has to see him again, and confirm that or bat it down; before you draft a player you look at him 50 times and talk to 50 people who have known him and go into his house and meet his parents, and then you put all of that information together before you make a decision; probably 50 people involved in that process.   Then he goes to the minors; he's got a dozen minor league pitching coaches or batting coaches or whatever, minor league managers.  Trainers.  Spring training coaches.  Equipment managers.   The system doesn't work unless all of those people do their jobs.

 

Then you have the people who sell tickets, the people who create business partnerships.  The GM, the 30 guys in the front office other than the scouts.  The previous GM, before the current one.   The people who take care of the field.   You can believe it or not, but the system will not work unless ALL of those people do their best to make it work.   And I've hardly scratched the surface.   The medical people. . .the doctors who perform the surgeries, the guy who knows what surgeon to go to for what surgery, the guy who drives them to their medical appointment and knows how to get them in there and out of there.   The nutritionist who tries to treat them about what to eat.  The people who know what exercise equipment to have.

[Frobby]

39 minutes ago, TINSTAAPP said:

 

Don't the Orioles owe the Nationals $99 million based on the results of the MASN lawsuit? Maybe they're trying to pocket as much money as possible in order to make those payments in the future.

It’s MASN that owes the money, not the Orioles.   But I forget right now if MASN overdistributed to the Orioles based on the old formula and will have to claw it back, or whether MASN was sitting on the money, or a little of both.   

Edit: went back to a MASN thread I started last December that reported that the O’s were over distributed about $69.6 mm that would have to be paid back to MASN if the award is not overturned on appeal.   I’ve looked for information on the status of the appeal and found nothing helpful.    It looks like the case is on some kind of calendar call for Oct. 1, but I can’t tell what it is.   
 

[Orioles0615]

That pays for 2 - 2.5 years of Lindor