Ok, NOW we can blather about the roster: pitching

[HowAboutThat]

46 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I don't know. What's the problem?

Great. No problem. Clean house, move in the new tenants, and the property value goes up!

[Matt Bennett]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Cobb will be on the 40 man in November/December  but I think the O's will try to trade him and eat half his salary.

Starters (9) Means, (Cobb), Kremer  Akin, Lopez, Zimmermann, Stewart, Baumann,  Lowther

Relievers:  (1O) Harvey,  Scott, Tate, Fry, Lakins, Valdez, Pop, Eshelman, Mattson, Armstrong

My real question is will the O's offer Alberto and Nunez arbitration and risk paying them 3M each.  If they are projected to get that much in arbitration, do they have any trade value?

  

 

I really cannot fathom the Orioles non-tendering Núñez. The guy just had an 121 OPS+. He’s younger than DJ Stewart and Severino. He’s not even 12 months older than Mullins, Sisco, Santander. We can’t afford to pay one of our team’s top 3 offensive players 3 mil at age 26?How long are we planning to be 30th in the MLB in salary? 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Matt Bennett

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

I really cannot fathom the Orioles non-tendering Núñez. The guy just had an 121 OPS+. He’s younger than DJ Stewart and Severino. He’s not even 12 months older than Mullins, Sisco, Santander. We can’t afford to pay one of our team’s top 3 offensive players 3 mil at age 26?How long are we planning to be 30th in the MLB in salary? 

I agree with basically all of this.

The counter to this is simply that he has no positional or base running value.

He is a good bat that can be replaced by someone with a better all around game.

I don’t think they should NT him either but it is semi-defensible especially when you factor in young guys needing a chance, like Diaz.

This becomes even more of an issue if they keep Davis.

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Matt Bennett said:

I really cannot fathom the Orioles non-tendering Núñez. The guy just had an 121 OPS+. He’s younger than DJ Stewart and Severino. He’s not even 12 months older than Mullins, Sisco, Santander. We can’t afford to pay one of our team’s top 3 offensive players 3 mil at age 26?How long are we planning to be 30th in the MLB in salary? 

I really don't know what they do with with Nunez.   If they have Hays, Mullins, Santander and for most of the season Diaz in the outfield.  Mountcastle and Mancini at 1B and DH.  Were does Nunez get his at bats?  That is why I asked the question does he have trade value with a 3M contract?

I think the O's are going to spend on some of their players the fit the team.  Mancini  and Santander are both arbitration eligible and they will get paid. Valaika had a nice season and is arbitration eligible.  I think he gets paid.   

But I think Elias will be looking to trade Cobb while paying some of his contract and there are arbitration guys that are on the bubble in my opinion including Nunez, Alberto, Armstrong and even Severino.  The O's would need a replacement for 2021 before moving Severino but I think Elias will be looking around.

[HowAboutThat]

9 hours ago, wildcard said:

I really don't know what they do with with Nunez.   If they have Hays, Mullins, Santander and for most of the season Diaz in the outfield.  Mountcastle and Mancini at 1B and DH.  Were does Nunez get his at bats?  That is why I asked the question does he have trade value with a 3M contract?

I think the O's are going to spend on some of their players the fit the team.  Mancini  and Santander are both arbitration eligible and they will get paid. Valaika had a nice season and is arbitration eligible.  I think he gets paid.   

But I think Elias will be looking to trade Cobb while paying some of his contract and there are arbitration guys that are on the bubble in my opinion including Nunez, Alberto, Armstrong and even Severino.  The O's would need a replacement for 2021 before moving Severino but I think Elias will be looking around.

Nunez was worth .01 fWAR. He can hit, but he’s so limited in every other way he gives everything back. He can’t even run. Someone will pick him up for free, but no one will trade for him. Not only is he not worth ~3 million , we have several guys who do what he does and other things besides. We can afford to NT him because we don’t need him, and we are better off without him because he takes a space better used for someone else.

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, Philip said:

Nunez was worth .01 fWAR. He can hit, but he’s so limited in every other way he gives everything back. He can’t even run. Someone will pick him up for free, but no one will trade for him. Not only is he not worth ~3 million , we have several guys who do what he does and other things besides. We can afford to NT him because we don’t need him, and we are better off without him because he takes a space better used for someone else.

Everything you say here is correct...but 3 million is no money and it’s tough to just cut an 800+ OpS, 30+ homer bat.

I think you keep him for insurance if nothing else.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Everything you say here is correct...but 3 million is no money and it’s tough to just cut an 800+ OpS, 30+ homer bat.

I think you keep him for insurance if nothing else.

It is a happy fact that I think the Orioles will be good enough next year that they won’t need him. They need good infield defense and he doesn’t provide that.

[HowAboutThat]

Also, if we keep Cobb through the winter, we will need the spot for rule 5 protection.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Philip said:

Also, if we keep Cobb through the winter, we will need the spot for rule 5 protection.

People (including me) have been focused on losing that spot for Rule 5 protection if we retain Davis this winter, but it also impacts us every time we make a waiver claim and have to DFA someone to open up a spot for the claimed player.    

[Can_of_corn]

5 hours ago, Philip said:

It is a happy fact that I think the Orioles will be good enough next year that they won’t need him. They need good infield defense and he doesn’t provide that.

The value of infield defense is at an all time low.

• More players are hitting the ball in the air
• More players are striking out.

 

It also feels like we have fewer dp opportunities.

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, Philip said:

It is a happy fact that I think the Orioles will be good enough next year that they won’t need him. They need good infield defense and he doesn’t provide that.

It’s also a relatively irrational thought that they won’t need him.

In many ways, I’m 100% on board with what you are saying.  However, your outlook is talking about many things going right.

Lets not forget that you actually need Mancini to come back and have his skills back.  You need Santander, Hays, Stewart and (eventually) Diaz to both play well and stay healthy, something none of these guys have consistently shown they can do.

Nunez provides insurance for those issues.

Now, The flip side To that is, who cares?  If those guys are hurt or aren’t performing, Nunez doesn’t keep us afloat or carry this team when they are out. He’s just another body, even if he is offensively one of the better players on the team.

 I’m just not on board with losing him for free.  I think it’s a relatively poor move heading into the upcoming season, not just because I think he provides some value on the field but because of the insurance aspect I mentioned.  

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, Philip said:

Also, if we keep Cobb through the winter, we will need the spot for rule 5 protection.

Ehh, I don’t agree there.

Hess, Kline, Sulser, Phillips, Valdez, Lakins, Lopez, Stewart, valazquez, Holaday, Wynns, Martin and Urias all could easily be cut.

Eshelman, Valaika and Ruiz could also be easy cuts if you want to.  
 

In other words, I think we will have more spots than bodies before even worrying about Nunez and the 40 man roster.

[sportsfan8703]

Realistically, could we eat 1/2 of Cobb’s salary and trade him?  I’m not so sure on that one. 
 

He’s not good enough to crack a “contenders” rotation, and he’s too expensive for a fringe contender to buy in the offseason. 
 

I think we’ll some interesting trades involving any of the players in arbitration(Nunez, Alberto, Severino), or our “established” relievers that have some value(Fry, Armstrong) Just to clear 40 man roster space. 

Given our SP situation, it’s looking like 2023 is the earliest that we could contend. Especially if we go back to the old playoff format. 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s also a relatively irrational thought that they won’t need him.

In many ways, I’m 100% on board with what you are saying.  However, your outlook is talking about many things going right.

Lets not forget that you actually need Mancini to come back and have his skills back.  You need Santander, Hays, Stewart and (eventually) Diaz to both play well and stay healthy, something none of these guys have consistently shown they can do.

Nunez provides insurance for those issues.

Now, The flip side To that is, who cares?  If those guys are hurt or aren’t performing, Nunez doesn’t keep us afloat or carry this team when they are out. He’s just another body, even if he is offensively one of the better players on the team.

 I’m just not on board with losing him for free.  I think it’s a relatively poor move heading into the upcoming season, not just because I think he provides some value on the field but because of the insurance aspect I mentioned.  

Do you think Nunez has any trade value at a 3m salary?

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Do you think Nunez has any trade value at a 3m salary?

I don’t think the salary matters to be honest.  By that I mean, most teams will have 3 million to pay for his bat...if they need it.  I also don’t know that you can assume he gets 3M (or more).

The question is, who needs a DH?  If the NL has the DH next year, it will be helpful but I don’t see that happening.  
 

The need for his skill set is the bigger hindrance in trading him vs the salary imo.

If we cut him, I could see Tampa or Oakland scooping him right up (if they have a need at that position)