Frederick Dropped

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I wouldn't be totally shocked with 2022, with playoffs expanding. If Hall and Rodriguez are MLB ready 2-3 starters, some of the remaining pitching prospects fill the rest of the rotation and Adley is as good as we all hope, why not?

Not likely, but I wouldn’t say it’s impossible either.    It would require a lot of things to break the right way development-wise.   And, it would require some acquisitions.   

[eddie83]

7 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I wouldn't be totally shocked with 2022, with playoffs expanding. If Hall and Rodriguez are MLB ready 2-3 starters, some of the remaining pitching prospects fill the rest of the rotation and Adley is as good as we all hope, why not?

Has there been any more buzz about expanded postseason recently? Haven’t heard. I hope they don’t over do it.  

[Just Regular]

2 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

There are 3.7 million people within a 25 mile radius of Bowie compared to 734,000 within a 25 mile radius of Frederick. Even if you want to cut that to 15 miles to eliminate DC and parts of Baltimore, there are 1.3 million people within a 15 mile radius of Bowie and 207,000 within a 15 mile radius of Frederick.

Its kind of a Pass/Fail are you part of the East North America coastal megacity?   Frederick is inland enough to barely miss, for a little while longer at least.

[MurphDogg]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Lol. nice try at a shot, but there lots more than that.

I truly don't mean it as a shot, all I know is there aren't as many as there used to be. And it is a bummer. Unfortunately you are the only one who can fix that.

For what its worth, according to the front page, there are currently 8 members logged in. Yeah we are engaged and having a conversation, but it ain't what it used to be around here, and it isn't because people are afraid of the crime in the city. 

As far as the other stuff, as I said above, I agree the reputation is an issue. It is sad that your friends are afraid to come to the city to watch a game, it is truly their loss.

As far as the population goes, the population has been in decline since the 1950s, the current rate of population decline is the slowest it has been since the 70s.

 

[Tony-OH]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s a moot point until the team is a contender for at least three years in a row like it was in 2012-14.   Honestly, it would probably take more like five consecutive years of contention, considering the low ebb we’ll be starting from.    I hope I live long enough to see that happen and test the hypothesis.   

Being a contender again should help the attendance, but all of that happened pre 2015. I'm not quite sure some people understand how many people don't want to go into cities right now or in the near future. Again, it's not everyone, some people will have zero issues going into cities, but others will prefer to watch games on TV or streaming if available.

Plus, I think this past year has affected many people in many ways. The COVID situation, the restrictions, the lack of social interaction in person is having a profound affect on people and it could last for years or maybe forever, i don't know. Major sports fans that lived and died with sports have found how to cope without them.

I know I never thought Sundays in the fall and winter would not include football, yet now it does and I've found I don't miss it. I know many others who did not watch the Orioles this year as well, many who were die hards and have lived breathed Orioles since childhood. Now, maybe they will come back next year if stadiums open up, we will see, or maybe people will have found other ways to entertain themselves?

I think pro sports is at a huge crossroads and people are finding other ways to spend their entertainment dollar and time investment. 

Everyone is different, and I respect all opinions on the matter, but anytime you give people opportunities to de-invest in your product, you fear not getting them back. 

With people cutting the cord because of overpriced cable, teams are going to start losing that cash cow and they will need to find it elsewhere, but attendance is down too. At some point salaries will start to come down but that won't come easy from the player's unions and i think work stoppages are on the horizon. 

All of this spells trouble for America's former past time. 

It will be interesting to se how they navigate these troubled waters and in particular, how the Orioles do while under Angelos ownership that has never been on the leading edge of these kinds of things.

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I truly don't mean it as a shot, all I know is there aren't as many as there used to be. And it is a bummer. Unfortunately you are the only one who can fix that.

For what its worth, according to the front page, there are currently 8 members logged in. Yeah we are engaged and having a conversation, but it ain't what it used to be around here, and it isn't because people are afraid of the crime in the city. 

As far as the other stuff, as I said above, I agree the reputation is an issue. It is sad that your friends are afraid to come to the city to watch a game, it is truly their loss.

As far as the population goes, the population has been in decline since the 1950s, the current rate of population decline is the slowest it has been since the 70s.

 

Did you read the article I posted?

"Baltimore’s population has dipped below 600,000 for the first time in more than a century, according to U.S. Census estimates released Thursday. The city’s estimated population was 593,490 as of July 1, 2019, the new data shows."

"But since 2015, when Baltimore saw civil unrest after the death of Freddie Gray from injuries he suffered in police custody, the city has experienced annual declines in population."

"None of the counties surrounding the city saw their population substantially decline last year, noted Michael Rendall, director of the Maryland Population Research Center and a sociology professor at the University of Maryland, College Park."

"Since 2010, the city has lost 27,280 residents, shedding more than 4% of its population, according to the estimates."

"In 2015, a Baltimore Neighborhood Indicators Alliance report for Rawlings-Blake’s “Grow Baltimore” initiative identified key factors that make people want to leave the city.

They were: “daily stressors such as litter, parking, property crime and vacant housing; high property taxes and insurance rates; poor performing public schools and lack of information about school choice; and few market-rate housing choices for new retirees.”

Since 2015, violence has spiked in the city, with more than 300 homicides each year."

[MurphDogg]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Did you read the article I posted?

"Baltimore’s population has dipped below 600,000 for the first time in more than a century, according to U.S. Census estimates released Thursday. The city’s estimated population was 593,490 as of July 1, 2019, the new data shows."

"But since 2015, when Baltimore saw civil unrest after the death of Freddie Gray from injuries he suffered in police custody, the city has experienced annual declines in population."

"None of the counties surrounding the city saw their population substantially decline last year, noted Michael Rendall, director of the Maryland Population Research Center and a sociology professor at the University of Maryland, College Park."

"Since 2010, the city has lost 27,280 residents, shedding more than 4% of its population, according to the estimates."

"In 2015, a Baltimore Neighborhood Indicators Alliance report for Rawlings-Blake’s “Grow Baltimore” initiative identified key factors that make people want to leave the city.

They were: “daily stressors such as litter, parking, property crime and vacant housing; high property taxes and insurance rates; poor performing public schools and lack of information about school choice; and few market-rate housing choices for new retirees.”

Since 2015, violence has spiked in the city, with more than 300 homicides each year."

Yeah, population dropped 13.1 percent between 1960 and 1970 11.5 percent between 1990 and 2000. 4 percent is not high by recent historical standards, as I said.

The homicide rate is up since 2014, fortunately it has been consistently at 0.0 among suburbanites visiting the city to watch an O's game.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Not to the same degree. Much much smaller population-wise than central Maryland (including Bowie) as well. 

And yet, in 2019 Frederick drew 263 k and Bowie only 224 k.    And that’s not just a one-year phenomenon.

 

[Just Regular]

29 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't know if my own younger son (23) has ever watched an Orioles game from start to finish in TV, ever. He might come in and watch a few innings while he eats or if the game is close and he may watch the end, but he just doesn't have the same love of the game as I did and trust me, he was given all the opportunity in the world to love it from me! lol

I think a lot about this too with kiddo hitting 6 just before OD and wondering if his childhood Orioles experience will be anything like mine.

But here's the thing about media these days - while I'm here with my fellow crazies year in year out, I haven't watched an Orioles game from start to finish in TV, in quite some time either.  I guess the 2016 wildcard game was the last solid 3 hours, and that felt really weird.   Even when single in 2012 and pre-parenthood in 2014, it was already DVR and maybe start watching 90 minutes later.   Baby in house, all bets off.

The good Rutschman teams should be a gift in kiddos 8-12 golden years (if he ends up caring at all!), but I'm wondering how I myself will be able to adjust back to not zooming past commercials (and even between pitches) to let a kid learn.

[MurphDogg]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

And yet, in 2019 Frederick drew 263 k and Bowie only 224 k.    And that’s not just a one-year phenomenon.

Interested to see if Bowie's numbers change with Frederick no longer an Orioles affiliate. Unfortunately I don't think this season will give us enough data for COVID reasons. Personally, I will go to more Baysox games with Frederick no longer an option.

I'm not sure what percentage of their attendance is driven by Orioles fandom rather than just the number of fans in the area.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

I haven't been out to Harry Grove Stadium in years, but I grew up going to multiple Keys games every summer with my now-deceased father in the 90s because he worked near there. Some of the fondest memories of my childhood.

This one REALLY hurts, ngl.

[MurphDogg]

2 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I haven't been out to Harry Grove Stadium in years, but I grew up going to multiple Keys games every summer with my now-deceased father in the 90s because he worked near there. Some of the fondest memories of my childhood.

This one REALLY hurts, ngl.

Yeah, I am really sad about it too. I have probably been to twice as many games at Harry Grove as all other minor league stadium combined. Been going there since it opened. We used to go camping at Gambrill State Park and go to Keys games. Was hoping to continue that tradition with my kid.

[LTO's]

5 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Yeah, population dropped 13.1 percent between 1960 and 1970 11.5 percent between 1990 and 2000. 4 percent is not high by recent historical standards, as I said.

The homicide rate is up since 2014, fortunately it has been consistently at 0.0 among suburbanites visiting the city to watch an O's game.

Anyone who is "afraid" to come watch an Os game at Camden Yards is not worth taking seriously. Period. It is very safe to go to a game and that's not an opinion. They, like all of the other more fair weather fans, will be back when the Os are good again but I hope i don't have to sit anywhere near them. If you don't want to spend the money to watch a game - fine. If you don't want to watch a team that isn't competitive - fine. But blaming the city really is just the most pathetic excuse.

[Sports Guy]

Baltimore definitely sucks for many reasons and the perception of the city is without question hurting it.  And it’s not going to get better, it’s going to get worse.

That being said, I think the team goes back to drawing 2.2-2.5M fans if/when they get good again.  Baltimore is a baseball town and OPaCY is the best stadium, so they will draw.

[MurphDogg]

13 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Anyone who is "afraid" to come watch an Os game at Camden Yards is not worth taking seriously. Period. It is very safe to go to a game and that's not an opinion. They, like all of the other more fair weather fans, will be back when the Os are good again but I hope i don't have to sit anywhere near them. If you don't want to spend the money to watch a game - fine. If you don't want to watch a team that isn't competitive - fine. But blaming the city really is just the most pathetic excuse.

I suspect that is the case as well, but I don't discount the people that Tony talks to who say otherwise. I think that the people saying that truly believe that, but my guess is, some of those people will find themselves with bravery and courage they didn't know that they had and will overcome their fears when the team is good. 

I have moral qualms about supporting professional football, unfortunately the Ravens have one of the most exciting QBs to watch and I tune in anyway. If the Ravens were bad, I wouldn't watch and I would proudly declare my moral superiority. I think the situation with Tony's friends is probably similar.