NL VP of Scouting : " It’s embarrassing to the sport what they’re doing, or aren’t doing."

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Who do you think is being held back this year due to financial reasons? 

Adley first and foremost.

I'd like to see pretty much all the more highly regarded guys get aggressively promoted.  Let's see if Gunnar can handle AA, same with Grayson.

The deliberately slow promotion schedule makes it easier to control their promotion dates to one that provide maximum benefit to the team.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I don't disagree with any of this, but I think it's obvious that the O's will still have to supplement this rebuild with significant talent from outside of the org, whether through trades or free agency. Our farm system won't be enough by itself unless the international stuff really breaks out. Even that is years away.

At some point, soon, Elias will need to make that pivot because it won't all be done with a single stroke of the pen. Building the full team that competes will take time, even with a good minor league system.

Right and it’s possible you could have gotten a bargain this offseason on acquiring some of that talent.  Getting a player a year too early isn’t a bad thing.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Co-worker?  Perhaps.  Competitor?  No.

I think they consider each other peers.  Part of the same, very small, club.

[SteveA]

3 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I don't disagree with any of this, but I think it's obvious that the O's will still have to supplement this rebuild with significant talent from outside of the org, whether through trades or free agency. Our farm system won't be enough by itself unless the international stuff really breaks out. Even that is years away.

At some point, soon, Elias will need to make that pivot because it won't all be done with a single stroke of the pen. Building the full team that competes will take time, even with a good minor league system.

Yes.   And my big concern is when that time comes, WHEN they reach the point that a significant increase in payroll is what is needed to make us a contender, that ownership will not allow it.   I am damn worried about that.

But I don't believe that time is now.   I hope this team can win 70 this year and I am probably being a bit optimistic with that hope.   I don't think a reasonable outlay on money can turn a hope-for-70 team into a team that can contend.   So right now we are not at the point where I would spend the money.

We could be in the coming off season, and if not we darn well should be by the offseason after that.     And yes, I am very worried that we won't spend when we reach the point where a free agent or two can make us a contender.   

But we aren't at that point now and thus I have no problem with the approach we are using right now.

[LookinUp]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Right and it’s possible you could have gotten a bargain this offseason on acquiring some of that talent.  Getting a player a year too early isn’t a bad thing.

Yeah, it's possible for sure. I definitely wanted it.

I do fall back on the notion that the aging sick owner (future sale), covid, MASN issues are actually catastrophic to short term finances and thus this frugality is reasonable and acceptable. 

It's certainly not desirable in a normal situation, but the O's really are going through a very abnormal period right now, rebuild aside.

[Tony-OH]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Adley first and foremost.

I'd like to see pretty much all the more highly regarded guys get aggressively promoted.  Let's see if Gunnar can handle AA, same with Grayson.

The deliberately slow promotion schedule makes it easier to control their promotion dates to one that provide maximum benefit to the team.

Ok, let's take finances out of this. 

Rutschman has 46 PAs above Short Season A-ball. He struck out 11 times in 30 PAs this spring and put up a .711 OPS. Is he probably better than Severino right now? Maybe, but it makes little sense to start him off in the majors without some sustained success in the minor leagues. Watching Rutschman a bit this spring did not show me a guy that was ready to be successful at the major league level, He needs work on his approach and swing path.

Could certain players be pushed and challenged a little more quicker, sure, but I don't think it's because of financial reasons Elias has promoted like he has. I do think we will see some players skip levels because of the missed year last year and there could be some aggressive promotions this year, but there' a lot of unknown. 

Keeping Mountcastle down as long as he did last year was the only time I've been a little frustrated. But if it gains the Orioles an extra year of control it makes sense when he knew the Orioles weren't playing for anything last year anyways.

[LTO's]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t recall you asking me but maybe I just didn’t care to continue to repeat myself over and over.  Most of my posts are spent on this topic.

That being said and as I have said countless times, I largely agree with everything Elias is doing.  However, I feel the team should be better and more competitive this year.  I think the Os have a lot of money they can throw around right now and could be using that in trades and free agency to acquire players that help now and long term.  I think they are getting dangerously close to having too much depth and are at risk of losing some guys for next to nothing, ala Pop.  I would like to see them address some areas of weakness in the organization by going outside of it.

Again, these are all points I have mentioned several times so if you aren’t seeing it, that’s on you.  It’s not from a lack of me answering the question.

Interesting. I disagree completely with them having too much depth and I don't think the Pop situation can be extrapolated beyond the fact that he was hurt and they didn't trust him to remain healthy. I'm skeptical of the decision itself but I don't think it was made because they have too much depth. In terms of trading their MiL assets for ML players, they will do that in due time I am sure. The pandemic deprived them a full minor league season to scout their farm system and determine which prospects they buy into long term and which ones they are willing to trade. Making those kind of decisions now using only 2019 and alternative site data seems very foolish to me. They've had basically one season to implement their development program on a full organizational basis. 

I also highly doubt they have a lot of money to spend. In fact I think it's the opposite. They no doubt took a huge loss last year, probably didn't turn a huge profit in 2018 and 2019 either and are due to pay the Nats a pretty penny as well. I wish they had new ownership, but in the current situation, I really doubt they have the cashflow you think they have. The writing is kind of on the wall regarding that. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Ok, let's take finances out of this. 

Rutschman has 46 PAs above Short Season A-ball. He struck out 11 times in 30 PAs this spring and put up a .711 OPS. Is he probably better than Severino right now? Maybe, but it makes little sense to start him off in the majors without some sustained success in the minor leagues. Watching Rutschman a bit this spring did not show me a guy that was ready to be successful at the major league level, He needs work on his approach and swing path.

Could certain players be pushed and challenged a little more quicker, sure, but I don't think it's because of financial reasons Elias has promoted like he has. I do think we will see some players skip levels because of the missed year last year and there could be some aggressive promotions this year, but there' a lot of unknown. 

Keeping Mountcastle down as long as he did last year was the only time I've been a little frustrated. But if it gains the Orioles an extra year of control it makes sense when he knew the Orioles weren't playing for anything last year anyways.

His glove and raw power make him better than Severino and Sisco right now.

Hell his reputed ability to frame pitches at an elite level would be enough if you are in to that sort of thing.

[Sports Guy]

21 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Interesting. I disagree completely with them having too much depth and I don't think the Pop situation can be extrapolated beyond the fact that he was hurt and they didn't trust him to remain healthy. I'm skeptical of the decision itself but I don't think it was made because they have too much depth. In terms of trading their MiL assets for ML players, they will do that in due time I am sure. The pandemic deprived them a full minor league season to scout their farm system and determine which prospects they buy into long term and which ones they are willing to trade. Making those kind of decisions now using only 2019 and alternative site data seems very foolish to me. They've had basically one season to implement their development program on a full organizational basis. 

I also highly doubt they have a lot of money to spend. In fact I think it's the opposite. They no doubt took a huge loss last year, probably didn't turn a huge profit in 2018 and 2019 either and are due to pay the Nats a pretty penny as well. I wish they had new ownership, but in the current situation, I really doubt they have the cashflow you think they have. The writing is kind of on the wall regarding that. 

1) the pitching situation is going to get very crowded within the next year.  This isn’t a bad thing right now and it’s not a bad problem to have  but as players start to run out of options and things like that, it becomes a problem.  You lose leverage with some of them and end up dealing them for pennies on the dollar.  Would rather be proactive about this if the opportunity arises.

2). I was just saying we lost Pop for nothing..I don’t want to see that happen to other guys.  Packaging a few guys here and there for other areas of need isnt a bad thing.

3) They have plenty of money...that’s not the issue.  Now, we don’t know what they need or want to do in terms of money for potential sale of the club or how it could effect estates taxes or whatever but the money is for sure there.

[Moose Milligan]

55 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

I just love the Baltimore Victim Syndrome.  Everyone is out to get us!  The MLB Umps, the NCAA Refs, the National Media!

Baltimorons have a chip on their shoulder the size of Wyoming.  Caught between DC, Philly and NYC on 95, the inferiority complex they have is insufferable.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Baltimorons have a chip on their shoulder the size of Wyoming.  Caught between DC, Philly and NYC on 95 the inferiority complex they have is insufferable.

You are being too kind w/r/t Wyoming.

[LTO's]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd like to see pretty much all the more highly regarded guys get aggressively promoted.  Let's see if Gunnar can handle AA, same with Grayson.

Henderson said he believes he's going start at High-A. As a 19 year old, that's plenty aggressive considering he hasn't played above rookie ball.

Grayrod has said he believes he will start at AA so not much to worry about there. Many players are probably going to be skipping a level due to the pandemic. 

I largely agree with you about Rutschman being better than Sisco at the very least. However, I wouldn't consider having him spend some time in AA to be unjustifiable developmentally considering there was no season last year. I guess I just don't see how these moves or lack thereof are particularly "embarrassing" especially considering the lack of talent a few other teams have. You don't have to have a chip on your shoulder to point out the Orioles absolutely suck but they aren't so bad they are this affront to the game of baseball. It's frankly embarrassing to see writers and other execs talk about it in such a hyperbolic way. They had a good record for a five year period, maxed out their window and they suck now. The Twins, Phillies, Braves, Astros, Cubs and White Sox were all bad for a long stretch before they became good again. Why are the Orioles constantly being singled out? It's a fair question. 

[eddie83]

Is there a plethora of talent available that these teams are refusing to sign? 
 

 

 

 

 

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Henderson said he believes he's going start at High-A. As a 19 year old, that's plenty aggressive considering he hasn't played above rookie ball.

Grayrod has said he believes he will start at AA so not much to worry about there. Many players are probably going to be skipping a level due to the pandemic. 

I largely agree with you about Rutschman being better than Sisco at the very least. However, I wouldn't consider having him spend some time in AA to be unjustifiable developmentally considering there was no season last year. I guess I just don't see how these moves or lack thereof are particularly "embarrassing" especially considering the lack of talent a few other teams have. You don't have to have a chip on your shoulder to point out the Orioles absolutely suck but they aren't so bad they are this affront to the game of baseball. It's frankly embarrassing to see writers and other execs talk about it in such a hyperbolic way. They had a good record for a five year period, maxed out their window and they suck now. The Twins, Phillies, Braves, Astros, Cubs and White Sox were all bad for a long stretch before they became good again. Why are the Orioles constantly being singled out? It's a fair question. 

Every one of those teams sucked for longer than they needed to.

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Henderson said he believes he's going start at High-A. As a 19 year old, that's plenty aggressive considering he hasn't played above rookie ball.

Grayrod has said he believes he will start at AA so not much to worry about there. Many players are probably going to be skipping a level due to the pandemic. 

I largely agree with you about Rutschman being better than Sisco at the very least. However, I wouldn't consider having him spend some time in AA to be unjustifiable developmentally considering there was no season last year. I guess I just don't see how these moves or lack thereof are particularly "embarrassing" especially considering the lack of talent a few other teams have. You don't have to have a chip on your shoulder to point out the Orioles absolutely suck but they aren't so bad they are this affront to the game of baseball. It's frankly embarrassing to see writers and other execs talk about it in such a hyperbolic way. They had a good record for a five year period, maxed out their window and they suck now. The Twins, Phillies, Braves, Astros, Cubs and White Sox were all bad for a long stretch before they became good again. Why are the Orioles constantly being singled out? It's a fair question. 

Maybe it was the 14 years of sucking before the five year window?  Three playoff appearances and one division title in the last 23 years can have that effect.