The second guessing Hyde thread.

[Aristotelian]

To me the bigger issue is why is Jorge Lopez in the rotation? He did OK but he is a proven not good pitcher. Whether or not Akin is ready there must be better options. Lowther, Wells, waiver wire, somebody. 

[Moose Milligan]

10 hours ago, Moshagge3 said:

Are there really three pages of second guessing from a game where the Orioles scored no runs? I don't think different bullpen usage would have been a big help. 

To answer your question...

55 minutes ago, Sanfran327 said:

What's most aggravating about this is that the game wasn't out of hand yet when he brought in (an ice cold) Armstrong. Sure, he could have induced a ground ball or a popup, but I agree with your logic. And without a crystal ball, you don't know you're getting shut out yet. So in a close game, I would have also liked to see a different call. Or even letting Lopez try to get out of it himself. 

Exactly.  When Armstrong came in, the game was still in reach.  

I think Lopez was gassed, but I could have seen letting him get out of it by himself.  I didn't necessarily hate the move to bring in a reliever, just not the reliever who hadn't had any work in the past week.  

[interloper]

I consider Armstrong one of the higher leverage guys. He's a veteran arm. No problem throwing him in there. Bullpen guys often go many days without pitching and he needs to just be ready. 

That said, I like the Valdez idea. Let's not get beholden to the save rule already, Hyder. 

[bpilktree]

11 hours ago, Frobby said:

I would not have used Armstrong there.   Not coming off paternity leave having not thrown under supervision in days.  I would not have been bothered if Armstrong had come in at the start of an inning, or even with a runner on base.   But bases loaded, so no room for error?   No.  

Doesn’t really matter because the offense did absolutely nothing tonight. 
 

 

He had him up before the bases were loaded though.  I believe he was tossing when Frazier was up with two outs and just man on first.  He might have just been getting him ready for the 6th inning but the wheels fell off the cart fast with two outs.  It still gonna take guys but longer to get ready early in the year and with the weather cold.  

[Sports Guy]

Didn’t see the game but I don’t have an issue with the Mac decision.  
 

I think it was a win/win situation for him.

[Sanfran327]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

To answer your question...

Exactly.  When Armstrong came in, the game was still in reach.  

I think Lopez was gassed, but I could have seen letting him get out of it by himself.  I didn't necessarily hate the move to bring in a reliever, just not the reliever who hadn't had any work in the past week.  

Worst case scenario: Lopez gives up a monster grand slam and we trial 6-0. Pretty sure, anyway.

[Tony-OH]

11 hours ago, eddie83 said:

We won’t agree and that’s fine. I think it’s fun to talk strategy. 
 

Hyde said after game he only wanted to use Fry for one inning. Wanted him available for tomorrow. If he waits to use Fry in 8th and he struggles then what? Then he has to get someone else up and use them in a blowout. By starting Fry he has Sceroler who he can burn rest of way. 
 

. Not going to be easier tomorrow vs Cole. 

Then use Sceroler to start the 6th, use him for two-three innings, the use Armstrong and/or Fry for an inning. It was a lack of foresight and managerial experience to know Sceroler was your long guy yet you bring him into a bases loaded jam with Aaron Judge at the plate. Grant it, the young man did great, but you can tell most baseball experts like Palmer were wondering WTF?

[Philip]

It is indeed just one game, and we are indeed playing 162, but bad decisions don’t just happen in one game. The logic, if logic there was at all, was bad. It shows poor judgment, and poor judgment is not necessarily a bad thing if you learn from it, but if you say oh I wanted to do this and I wanted to do that and I expected to do that then you are saying openly that you are not good at what you do.

I just now read that hide had somebody up with one man on, which is good but it still happened too late.

But choosing Armstrong after paternity leave was stupid. Remember when your wife had your first kid. Yes she did all the work and you paced and chainsmoked and didn’t sleep and you prayed and did NOT work out for oh, five days?

And then come into the game with the bases loaded?

When you have a weak pitcher, you expect the minimum. Let Lopez start the inning sure, but have someone up, and have someone different up.

I don’t think Hyde is a good manager and have justified my opinion multiple times.

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

To me the bigger issue is why is Jorge Lopez in the rotation? He did OK but he is a proven not good pitcher. Whether or not Akin is ready there must be better options. Lowther, Wells, waiver wire, somebody. 

We are paying Cobb to pitch for the Angels, as we had so many talented pitchers, he was blocking the paths. lol

 

[eddie83]

32 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Then use Sceroler to start the 6th, use him for two-three innings, the use Armstrong and/or Fry for an inning. It was a lack of foresight and managerial experience to know Sceroler was your long guy yet you bring him into a bases loaded jam with Aaron Judge at the plate. Grant it, the young man did great, but you can tell most baseball experts like Palmer were wondering WTF?

But like I said if he waits until the 8th for Fry he needs a backup for Fry so he doesn’t throw too many pitches. By starting Fry in the 6th, Sceroler was going to pitch anyway. Fry was already being backed up.  

Bottom line regardless of how many were on the bases and who was up they are down 7 runs with 3 innings left to hit.  I get it’s his  first game but those are the type of spots he is going to pitch in. 
 

Hope tonight we can discuss strategy in a win....

[eddie83]

57 minutes ago, interloper said:

I consider Armstrong one of the higher leverage guys. He's a veteran arm. No problem throwing him in there. Bullpen guys often go many days without pitching and he needs to just be ready. 

That said, I like the Valdez idea. Let's not get beholden to the save rule already, Hyder. 

The spot Armstrong was in is the kind of spot he will pitch in all year. Question is after being away should he have pitched there. I agree he will be used in those spots. 
 

I don’t think you get Valdez up in the 5th for a hypothetical situation that may or may not arise. You have to be able to manage these guys over 162.  

[Moshagge3]

The bullpen right now is not versatile. You have Tate and Scott to mix and match with in the late innings, Valdez to close, and basically four longmen/mopup guys that you ideally want to hand a clean inning to. That leaves Armstrong. There's just no good option when it's only the fifth inning but it's high leverage.  

Should Hyde have planned for this? Maybe. We know that Lopez is not effective when hitters see him for the third time. With that in mind I don't think he should have faced Judge and maybe not even LeMahieu. Putting in Armstrong with two out and and only one on at least gives him room to nibble while he feels his way back. People are saying you have to let Lopez "learn" to escape his own messes as if he's a young guy who projects as a frontline starter, but I think he kinda is what he is and you be content with 4 2/3 IP out of him.

[Frobby]

55 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

He had him up before the bases were loaded though.  I believe he was tossing when Frazier was up with two outs and just man on first.  He might have just been getting him ready for the 6th inning but the wheels fell off the cart fast with two outs.  It still gonna take guys but longer to get ready early in the year and with the weather cold.  

That’s a fair point.   I had not been watching for a couple of innings and happened to tune in just long enough to see ball four (a foot wide of the plate) on the previous batter and then the meatball he threw for the grand slam.  So, I didn’t know when Hyde got him up.   

It’s not worth losing sleep over it.   I just felt a bit sorry for Lopez getting tagged with 3 runs there after pitching  pretty well until issuing several two out walks.  
 

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

To me the bigger issue is why is Jorge Lopez in the rotation? He did OK but he is a proven not good pitcher. Whether or not Akin is ready there must be better options. Lowther, Wells, waiver wire, somebody. 

If he stinks they aren’t going to let him pitch forever. 

[NCRaven]

He uses Fry who fails and we second guess.

He uses Sceroler who succeeds and we second guess.  

Gotta love it! 

You never win 0-anything.