Was the no hitter worth it? (Means leaves game with shoulder fatigue)

[Just Regular]

Baseball Forecaster 2021's injury log gives Means injury history as:

2019 - 26 days for strained biceps and shoulder

2020 - 14 days for COVID and shoulder fatigue

Even if this is only the annual pit stop, my guess is this will be the springboard for measuring his 2021 innings however Blood, etc. think best.

Colorado being such a weird place to pitch, I hope if he still goes it is just to wave and smile.

If Mickey Jannis were ever to have his One Shining Moment, seems like it would be about now.   Stretching Valdez out even more perhaps also part of covering June's innings from here.

[foxfield]

11 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

Most innings and most pitches that Means ever threw in a game and he hasn't been the same since

Now he has left shoulder fatigue

Even as I watched the no hitter and pulled for him I imagined Hyde and Mean agent rooting for a hit so they could pull him and not risk the injury that seems to have happened.

Pleasant thoughts of Webbrick2010:

Even as he watched the no hitter and pulled for him, he was thinking then, how long would he have to wait to find a way to turn this into something negative...

 

Other notable thoughts:

1983 The Phillies kinda gave this away.  It's not really a WS win.

1970 Brooks probably is over rated.  There's no way he can really do that.

And my personal favorite from circa 2008...Mark Teixeira drama...I'm with JTrea on this one.  

[Sports Guy]

Wonder if this effects his trade value?  Even if it’s no big deal, the idea that this keeps happening, is it a red flag for teams!

And is this all the more reason to deal Means so that it doesn’t turn into  bigger deal down the road?

[Tony-OH]

Until it is anything more than his annual "fatigue" I'll assume he will be coming back soon and back to himself. Saying that, if you recall, Means's second half of 2019 was much worse than his first half and after returning from this is 2019. Something to keep an eye on for sure. 

[Finisher]

"Orioles placed LHP John Means on the 10-day injured list with a left shoulder strain."

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

It sure is telling of how poorly this organization is run that our fans are clamoring to trade our best home grown SP since Mussina. All you need to know about people’s confidence in the “Rebuild”. 

This team likely won’t even try to compete until the change in ownership is complete.

1983 sure was a long time ago…

[VaBird1]

3 hours ago, OrioleDog said:

Baseball Forecaster 2021's injury log gives Means injury history as:

2019 - 26 days for strained biceps and shoulder

2020 - 14 days for COVID and shoulder fatigue

Even if this is only the annual pit stop, my guess is this will be the springboard for measuring his 2021 innings however Blood, etc. think best.

Colorado being such a weird place to pitch, I hope if he still goes it is just to wave and smile.

If Mickey Jannis were ever to have his One Shining Moment, seems like it would be about now.   Stretching Valdez out even more perhaps also part of covering June's innings from here.

I wouldn’t mind they Mickey Jannis  show.  Wynns will have to catch him though.

[Frobby]

I often disagree with webbrick2010 but I think he raises a fair question, to which there is no clear answer.   

Through no-hitter: 1.37 ERA, .424 OPSA, 9.8 K/9

After no hitter (excluding yesterday): 3.33 ERA, .716 OPSA, 6.7 K/9.

Obviously he pitched well post no-hitter before yesterday, but he hasn’t been quite as sharp as before.   I recall Sports Guy noting before yesterday that he hasn’t looked quite the same the last few starts.   

Now, correlation doesn’t mean causation, and Means does have some history of similar injuries.   But throwing 113 pitches could have exacerbated things a little.   I can’t rule it out.  

Wouid I have taken that chance if I were Hyde?   Yep.


 

[Natty]

59 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

It sure is telling of how poorly this organization is run that our fans are clamoring to trade our best home grown SP since Mussina. All you need to know about people’s confidence in the “Rebuild”. 

This team likely won’t even try to compete until the change in ownership is complete.

1983 sure was a long time ago…

The ownership and management has rebuilt this team into the worst record in the AL. Some rebuild.

[survivedc]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Until it is anything more than his annual "fatigue" I'll assume he will be coming back soon and back to himself. Saying that, if you recall, Means's second half of 2019 was much worse than his first half and after returning from this is 2019. Something to keep an eye on for sure. 

His second half was certainly worse, but most of that was a string of 3 starts in the end of July/beginning of august and then an outlier in September. Outside of the bad three and including the outlier he had 8 starts to finish the season, 49.2IP and 18ER. 
All to say that hopefully they have learned and putting him on the IL will allow him to bounce back quicker. 

[Oriole1940]

I do not know if shoulder fatigue is a real ailment or merely a term used when a pitcher has some bad outings after a normal use, for a pitcher,  of his body, at least normal for decades, until recent years.  If he is that fragile, he should be looking into getting a day job.  And no, an Ace is expected to pitch his regular turn after daring to pitch a nine inning complete game.  It was done for a couple hundred years,  successfully.  

[Aristotelian]

10 minutes ago, Oriole1940 said:

I do not know if shoulder fatigue is a real ailment or merely a term used when a pitcher has some bad outings after a normal use, for a pitcher,  of his body, at least normal for decades, until recent years.  If he is that fragile, he should be looking into getting a day job.  And no, an Ace is expected to pitch his regular turn after daring to pitch a nine inning complete game.  It was done for a couple hundred years,  successfully.  

Pitchers don't usually come out of a start in the first inning with a couple runs in just because they aren't pitching great. Definitely something going on, the question is what. 

[orioles22]

Not sure how we ever got to the point that 113 pitches is considered excessive. I complain every time I see one of our minor league pitchers come out after 75 pitches, especially when they are pitching well.

[LocoChris]

19 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

Not sure how we ever got to the point that 113 pitches is considered excessive. I complain every time I see one of our minor league pitchers come out after 75 pitches, especially when they are pitching well.

He hasn't even pitched poorly since the no-hitter, just hasn't been DeGrom level good, which lets face it, nobody is. This is one of the dumbest threads posted on here.

[Moose Milligan]

This is how it starts.