Amazing Video on pitchers cheating in MLB

[Camden_yardbird]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

More spin means more movement.  That's down to physics. 

It doesn't at all, and thats a vast simplification of spin rates.  It doesn't mean that the ball necessarily moves more, or in the direction the pitcher wants, or makes the pitch more effective.  There are other factors.  Sinkers with too much spin don't move, at a point increased spin on a curveball become negligible, changeups want less spin (most of the time).  More spin means the potential for more movement but axis of the baseball, the angle of it being thrown, the drag from the laces, magnus force, are also really important. 

I recommend this blog post for a lot more information.  There are a lot of former (Duquette Era) Orioles mentioned in it as well.

 https://www.blessyouboys.com/2018/5/15/17355934/a-basic-look-at-spin-rate-and-what-it-means-for-pitches

[Orioles0615]

 

[BRobinsonfan]

It's pretty economical too!  https://www.amazon.com/Spider-Tack-Competition-Grade-9oz/dp/B004309NLK#customerReviews

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

I'm waiting for the day when a batter attempts a bunt, and the ball sticks to the bat because of whatever substance the pitcher is using. 

[Morgan423]

1 hour ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I'm waiting for the day when a batter attempts a bunt, and the ball sticks to the bat because of whatever substance the pitcher is using. 

I know, right?  I seriously wonder how infielders are dealing with this.  Goop still has to be on the ball when they get it.  Must be a nightmare to transfer from the glove, or quickly access where you have to grip it to throw it correctly.

[Tony-OH]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Interesting topic on what this will really mean for offense. If offense spikes, by how much? 

You also have to wonder what this means for the Orioles and Orioles prospects. It was pretty clear from the video evidence that Means was doing this. Was this the reason for his changeup up effectiveness. Was this the secret sauce that made him go from a fringe prospect to an ace?

What about our pitching prospects in the minors now. Are they using something? Who does this affect the most?

It's going to be really interesting watching pitching performance over the next few months and at the major league league level, it will be very interesting to watch the spin rates.

[Tony-OH]

19 minutes ago, Morgan423 said:

I know, right?  I seriously wonder how infielders are dealing with this.  Goop still has to be on the ball when they get it.  Must be a nightmare to transfer from the glove, or quickly access where you have to grip it to throw it correctly.

You know, I have no idea if that stuff has affected fielding, and maybe it's just being hyper aware of this now, but it has seemed like a lot of double clutches by fielders and you wonder if the stuff on the ball has had something to do with that.

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

22 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Interesting topic on what this will really mean for offense. If offense spikes, by how much? 

You also have to wonder what this means for the Orioles and Orioles prospects. It was pretty clear from the video evidence that Means was doing this. Was this the reason for his changeup up effectiveness. Was this the secret sauce that made him go from a fringe prospect to an ace?

What about our pitching prospects in the minors now. Are they using something? Who does this affect the most?

It's going to be really interesting watching pitching performance over the next few months and at the major league league level, it will be very interesting to watch the spin rates.

Thanks for posting this Tony - best video I've seen yet explaining it. I've been following it on Twitter for a bit, but this video sums it up nicely.

Means is frequently cited on social media as one of the worst offenders as this. He has blatantly been going to his glove all season. He also has added new moves to try and disguise it - he does this weird twist thing now where he turns his body away from the dugout TV camera to load up from his glove.

There's a guy on Tik Tok who breaks this down a lot and he cites Means as one of the most egregious cases. Worth browsing if you're interested, not saying this guy is an expert, but he doesn't strike me as a tinfoil hat guy: https://www.tiktok.com/@hey_commy?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

Here's videos on Means specially: 

https://www.tiktok.com/@hey_commy/video/6959235278988905734?lang=en&is_copy_url=0&is_from_webapp=v1&sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6915589098296067590

https://www.tiktok.com/@hey_commy/video/6961394220779212038?lang=en&is_copy_url=0&is_from_webapp=v1&sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6915589098296067590

Interestingly enough - he thinks Gausman is pitching straight up:

https://www.tiktok.com/@hey_commy/video/6968617670526717189?lang=en&is_copy_url=0&is_from_webapp=v1&sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6915589098296067590

[Three Run Homer]

I'm sure MLB is figuring out how they can bust some people for this without it affecting the Yankees and the Dodgers. 

If John Means is an abuser, he would be a perfect sacrificial lamb from MLB's point of view.  On the other hand, he did add velocity to his fastball between 2019 and 2020--that's not due to foreign substances.  

Can someone remind me what substances pitchers are allowed to use to grip the ball?  They are allowed to use rosin, right?  

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 hour ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

Thanks for posting this Tony - best video I've seen yet explaining it. I've been following it on Twitter for a bit, but this video sums it up nicely.

Means is frequently cited on social media as one of the worst offenders as this. He has blatantly been going to his glove all season. He also has added new moves to try and disguise it - he does this weird twist thing now where he turns his body away from the dugout TV camera to load up from his glove.

There's a guy on Tik Tok who breaks this down a lot and he cites Means as one of the most egregious cases. Worth browsing if you're interested, not saying this guy is an expert, but he doesn't strike me as a tinfoil hat guy: https://www.tiktok.com/@hey_commy?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

Here's videos on Means specially: 

https://www.tiktok.com/@hey_commy/video/6959235278988905734?lang=en&is_copy_url=0&is_from_webapp=v1&sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6915589098296067590

https://www.tiktok.com/@hey_commy/video/6961394220779212038?lang=en&is_copy_url=0&is_from_webapp=v1&sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6915589098296067590

Interestingly enough - he thinks Gausman is pitching straight up:

https://www.tiktok.com/@hey_commy/video/6968617670526717189?lang=en&is_copy_url=0&is_from_webapp=v1&sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6915589098296067590

Wow!

 

Elias culture likely. By any Means necessary. 
 

this is disappointing, and I love Means, no way that’s on him, no way, it’s likely a culture. Disappointing that so many orgs just follow along without speaking out. It’s also quite comical we hold baseball to a higher standard than our politicians.

Edited June 9, 2021 by NelsonCruuuuuz

[Frobby]

9 hours ago, Explosivo said:

You know what’s interesting as well is the main argument that “batters like when pitchers use this stuff because it increases their control” 

well, that argument is thrown out by the data showing batters are being hit more now than ever including several players in the face and head. When pitchers are reliant on a system of using sticky substances, they must also compensate where they are releasing a pitch. A normal increased spin rate will direct the ball away from where they are throwing and to the intended target. When they mess up or slip, the spin rate is not applied and the ball goes toward the unintended target, mainly, a batter’s face and head. 
 

We have already seen Pillar pour blood from his nose and face on the diamond as a result. That was a gruesome play. I’m afraid it will likely get worse moving forward. Someone will get knocked out or worse. MLB and mainly the commissioner is derelict in their duties here to protect players from potential harm.

Until you mentioned this, I hadn’t realized that HBP were historically high over the last several years.   Excluding the 1800’s, the highest number of HBP per game were, in declining order): 2020, 2021, 2019 and 2018.  Still, there could be other reasons for that, such as batters putting on a bunch of pads, crowding the plate and not caring if they get hit.   Not that I’m ruling out your explanation.  

[Chavez Ravine]

I know this is a tortured analogy, but I had the same reaction to the WikiLeaks “revelation”  that the NSA was sifting through the entire internet to find interesting stuff as CoC’s reaction to the revelation  that pitchers were using modern technology to cheat.

[Camden_yardbird]

13 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Wow!

 

Elias culture likely. By any Means necessary. 
 

this is disappointing, and I love Means, no way that’s on him, no way, it’s likely a culture. Disappointing that so many orgs just follow along without speaking out. It’s also quite comical we hold baseball to a higher standard than our politicians.

I will say what I have said before on Means, there is little evidence in his movements charts that he has gained significant advantage from anything, other than the fact that he now throws a very good curveball that he did not throw his first two years in the league.  I dont know how you measure the effect in the change in performance on the curve and attribute that to either 1) grip enhancer or 2) a guy decided to work on what had been his fourth pitch and improve its performance.

Vertical movement in inches of drop (2018,19, 20, 21):

FB: 16.2, 13.3, 11.8, 11.5

Change:  22.2, 24.6, 20.9, 22.1

Slider: 3.4, 4.6, 4.2, 3.6

Curve: 50.3, 51.9, 54.3, 53

Horizontal (inches)

FB: 3.8, 5.9, 6.4, 6.4

Change: 11, 12.3, 13.4, 12.8

Slider: 3.4, 4.6, 4.2, 3.8

Curve: 0, 3.8, 13.6, 13.8

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/john-means-607644?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

[DrungoHazewood]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

Until you mentioned this, I hadn’t realized that HBP were historically high over the last several years.   Excluding the 1800’s, the highest number of HBP per game were, in declining order): 2020, 2021, 2019 and 2018.  Still, there could be other reasons for that, such as batters putting on a bunch of pads, crowding the plate and not caring if they get hit.   Not that I’m ruling out your explanation.  

There's basically no correlation between annual HBP rates and walk rates, which I would expect if the recent increase in HBP was control-related.  It's actually slightly negative meaning over time HBP are a little higher when walks go down.  Walks have stayed between 2.5 and 4 per nine pretty much forever, but HBP have varied from 0.16/game to 0.46/game in the last 40 years.  HBP have nearly tripled since the 80s while walks have stayed between 2.8 and 3.5.

HBP are predominantly being driven by batters standing on top of the plate and wearing protective gear so that they can reach and drive pitches on the outer half.  Maybe aided a little by replay that shows if the ball grazed a sleeve, as well as umps almost never refusing first for the batter not attempting to avoid the pitch. I'd be okay with some rules changes here, like moving the batters box a few inches away from the plate, and requiring batters to wear any protective gear as they run around the bases.  Armor up all you want, but you have to keep it on until you get back to the dugout.  Or... you have to wear it the whole game, in the field, too.

[Tony-OH]

10 hours ago, Frobby said:

Until you mentioned this, I hadn’t realized that HBP were historically high over the last several years.   Excluding the 1800’s, the highest number of HBP per game were, in declining order): 2020, 2021, 2019 and 2018.  Still, there could be other reasons for that, such as batters putting on a bunch of pads, crowding the plate and not caring if they get hit.   Not that I’m ruling out your explanation.  

I didn't know this either. Not surprisingly Harper, who was hit in the face, has been leading this charge from the hitters perspective. I do wonder if they think this stuff s contributing to the higher hit percentage and it does seem like guys are getting hit in the face much more. I've been watching the minors a lot this year and there has been many close calls and guys getting hit in the head as well.