The jerking around of Zac Lowther

[LTO's]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

What gets me is we have evidence in how well challenging the players works with Gunner.  He was in over his head last year, adjusted, and he's the better for it.

You really do put a lot of stock in a few weeks of controlled live BP don't you? 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LTO's said:

You really do put a lot of stock in a few weeks of controlled live BP don't you? 

I keep hearing about how good the developmental people are.

They were in an ideal situation to advance a select group of prospects.

I also put a lot of stock in adversity fueling improvement.

[Philip]

12 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Bradish alone has made that trade worth it.

Not yet he hasn’t… but we can hope

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Philip said:

Not yet he hasn’t… but we can hope

No, he has.  He doesn’t have to be good up here to justify the trade.  Bradish has justified the trade.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

No, he has.  He doesn’t have to be good up here to justify the trade.  Bradish has justified the trade.

How so? Potential is a grand and glorious thing, but its nothing unless it is realized, and Bradish hasn’t realized anything. If I understand you correctly, you’re suggesting that even if Bradish never throws a major league pitch, the trade was still a success….

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

How so? Potential is a grand and glorious thing, but its nothing unless it is realized, and Bradish hasn’t realized anything. If I understand you correctly, you’re suggesting that even if Bradish never throws a major league pitch, the trade was still a success….

Well, you saved money, got rid of someone who wasn’t built well for our park and you received 4 arms, all of which had some level of upside.

Since the trade occurred, Bundy did well last year in a SSS and is awful this year in a SSS.

Bradish has become a real prospect.  Brnovich and Peek are good arms to watch (have done some very good things this year at times) and Mattson is on the 40 man and could be part of the pen.

So yes, they did well with the trade.  The players they got in return justified the move.  

[Tony-OH]

20 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Frobby, players don’t have to play at all levels and pitch a lot at those levels to be ready.

How much different do you really think a college pitcher his age and with his experience is going to change in the minors at this point?

I really don’t understand this mindset at all.  The idea that people act like players can’t develop in the majors is incredible to me.

Sorry SG, but you are going way too far here. Players learn how to pitch to better competition without getting there brains beat in by trying things. Guys learn new pitches, how to command their pitches better, sequencing, and reading professional hitters in the minors. 

I know you are on this kick of late that anyone that looks vaguely ready is ready and can't learn anything in the minors, but I don't think you will find many people that will agree with you.

 

[Redskins Rick]

9 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Sorry SG, but you are going way too far here. Players learn how to pitch to better competition without getting there brains beat in by trying things. Guys learn new pitches, how to command their pitches better, sequencing, and reading professional hitters in the minors. 

I know you are on this kick of late that anyone that looks vaguely ready is ready and can't learn anything in the minors, but I don't think you will find many people that will agree with you.

 

How do you learn new things, if you arent evening using the same blasted ball????????

I do agree with you, that they need to learn the art of pitching and not just the mechanics of throwing the ball to the catcher.

 

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Redskins Rick said:

How do you learn new things, if you arent evening using the same blasted ball????????

I do agree with you, that they need to learn the art of pitching and not just the mechanics of throwing the ball to the catcher.

 

The fact that they don't use the same ball throughout the minors is mind-bogglingly stupid.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Sorry SG, but you are going way too far here. Players learn how to pitch to better competition without getting there brains beat in by trying things. Guys learn new pitches, how to command their pitches better, sequencing, and reading professional hitters in the minors. 

I know you are on this kick of late that anyone that looks vaguely ready is ready and can't learn anything in the minors, but I don't think you will find many people that will agree with you.

 

I’m ok if people don’t agree.  I think those people are crazy.

Lowther is a college kid who is 25 years old and has 340 Innings of MiL experience(half is which is in the upper minors) where he has a 10.5 K rate, 3.1 BB rate, 3.4:1 k to bb ratio, a WHiP of barely over 1 and a HR of .4.

He is who he is.  His stuff isn’t changing in the minors.  His command isn’t going to increase…at least not to the point where those things can’t be accomplished here.

I stand by what I said…people who act like you can’t develop at this level are wrong, especially if you believe that Holt is as good as he is. 
 

If Lowther struggled at AA, I would agree…but between what he did in AA, the camp last year, the camp this year and ST, I think he has had plenty of upper level experience and has no need to be down there anymore.

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m ok if people don’t agree.  I think those people are crazy.

Lowther is a college kid who is 25 years old and has 340 Innings of MiL experience(half is which is in the upper minors) where he has a 10.5 K rate, 3.1 BB rate, 3.4:1 k to bb ratio, a WHiP of barely over 1 and a HR of .4.

He is who he is.  His stuff isn’t changing in the minors.  His command isn’t going to increase…at least not to the point where those things can’t be accomplished here.

I stand by what I said…people who act like you can’t develop at this level are wrong, especially if you believe that Holt is as good as he is. 
 

If Lowther struggled at AA, I would agree…but between what he did in AA, the camp last year, the camp this year and ST, I think he has had plenty of upper level experience and has no need to be down there anymore.

Lowther just needs to pitch every five days. I could really care less if its in the majors or minors this year, but the fact they keep jumping him around and pitching a few innings here and there is a pretty bad plan if you ask me. Lowther needs to improve the consistency of his changeup and he's never really used major league balls until this year. 

The ridiculousness of MLB for allowing different balls then what they uses AA and below is spectacularly stupid. The ball difference alone is a reason to give these guy some AAA experience before bringing them up IMHO. 

Considering this team is starting Harvey still to eat innings, they can keep Lowther pitching in a lower stress environment while he gets used to the new ball in AAA. Once he's on track, bring him up and jettison Harvey.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

9 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The fact that they don't use the same ball throughout the minors is mind-bogglingly stupid.

Anything to save a few pennies, even if it messes with MLB's most important asset their players and personal development. 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Lowther just needs to pitch every five days. I could really care less if its in the majors or minors this year, but the fact they keep jumping him around and pitching a few innings here and there is a pretty bad plan if you ask me. Lowther needs to improve the consistency of his changeup and he's never really used major league balls until this year. 

The ridiculousness of MLB for allowing different balls then what they uses AA and below is spectacularly stupid. The ball difference alone is a reason to give these guy some AAA experience before bringing them up IMHO. 

Considering this team is starting Harvey still to eat innings, they can keep Lowther pitching in a lower stress environment while he gets used to the new ball in AAA. Once he's on track, bring him up and jettison Harvey.

No doubt..the Os have handled him as poorly as you could this year.

Again, we don’t know that the new ball is an issue for him.  He has likely been throwing with it since the camp last year.  But again, he can get used to it up here.  I would prefer that.  
 

I don’t see him as a guy who is going to really benefit any more from pitching in the minors.  He has shown command, ability to strike guys out, keeps the homers down, etc..he has checked the boxes.  
 

I don’t have a lot of faith that he is a rotation answer long term but I would rather find that out than watch guys like Harvey and Lopez, who are definitely not long term rotation answers.

[Redskins Rick]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No doubt..the Os have handled him as poorly as you could this year.

Again, we don’t know that the new ball is an issue for him.  He has likely been throwing with it since the camp last year.  But again, he can get used to it up here.  I would prefer that.  
 

I don’t see him as a guy who is going to really benefit any more from pitching in the minors.  He has shown command, ability to strike guys out, keeps the homers down, etc..he has checked the boxes.  
 

I don’t have a lot of faith that he is a rotation answer long term but I would rather find that out than watch guys like Harvey and Lopez, who are definitely not long term rotation answers.

He gets slammed in the bigs a few times, goes back to AAA, throws 4 innings of shutout ball.

So it is the ball, the quality of the hitting he is facing, or a combination, but a combination of the two.

He has shown nothing of any pitching skill at the majors, so maybe he needs to log some more innings under his belt?

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

 

So it is the ball, the quality of the hitting he is facing, or a combination, but a combination of the two.

 

Or door #3..the SSS is so small that the results don’t matter because it’s so random when the sampling is that small.