Don't waste the Adley, Grayson and DL years.

[LTO's]

21 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If they are in the system they are being counted as part of the system that is being graded.

Yes and he grades them higher than other publications despite the inherent risk of each of them individually. It's a very easy concept. He has a track record of being faster at identifying rising prospects from the international ranks. That's why he weighs them higher. You may not agree with it, but it doesn't make it intellectually dishonest or whatever else you said. It's just a difference in methodology. We can hope for our sake that he's too harsh on the Orioles here but if he is, it's probably not by a lot. 

26 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If a team signed free agents every year and forfeited draft picks would you dock their ranking? 

Maybe. What is particularly egregious about that? The Orioles forfeited the 14th overall pick for Yovani Gallardo when they didn't even have a strong farm to begin with. Should they not have been docked for that? It seems like it would've been extremely fair to do so. Players picked around that selection are: Josh Lowe, Alex Kiriloff, Forrest Whitley, Justin Dunn and Gavin Lux. The Orioles willfully passed up on those guys for Yovani Gallardo. Just like they pass up on the Vidal Brujan and Wander Francos of the world. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Yes and he grades them higher than other publications despite the inherent risk of each of them individually. It's a very easy concept. He has a track record of being faster at identifying rising prospects from the international ranks. That's why he weighs them higher. You may not agree with it, but it doesn't make it intellectually dishonest or whatever else you said. It's just a difference in methodology. We can hope for our sake that he's too harsh on the Orioles here but if he is, it's probably not by a lot. 

Maybe. What is particularly egregious about that? The Orioles forfeited the 14th overall pick for Yovani Gallardo when they didn't even have a strong farm to begin with. Should they not have been docked for that? It seems like it would've been extremely fair to do so. Players picked around that selection are: Josh Lowe, Alex Kiriloff, Forrest Whitley, Justin Dunn and Gavin Lux. The Orioles willfully passed up on those guys for Yovani Gallardo. Just like they pass up on the Vidal Brujan and Wander Francos of the world. 

I'm not sure what the disconnect here is.

KLaw factored in all the International players when he did his evaluations.  He then decided to dock the O's overall ranking, not based on the players (which includes their International players) but on their methodology.  What does their methodology have to do with the talent currently present in the farm system? 

Anyway we are talking in circles.

[LTO's]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not sure what the disconnect here is.

KLaw factored in all the International players when he did his evaluations.  He then decided to dock the O's overall ranking, not based on the players (which includes their International players) but on their methodology.  What does their methodology have to do with the talent currently present in the farm system? 

Anyway we are talking in circles.

I believe the disconnect is that you believe he is "docking" the Orioles when it's more like he is rating all other teams higher.  I don't think he's adding up the value of every prospect in the Os system and then subtracting an arbitrary amount due to the lack of international prospects. He's just weighing the signings of a given team's past few J2 periods higher than other publications.  He's noted though that he expects the system to rise with the new player development regime and that not having a minor league season last year really hurt them. He's really high on Sig and Elias.

[Sports Guy]

The only way you should evaluate a system for any given year is how talented are the players in the system.  How deep is the system?  

If Law really believes that 17 other organizations have more talented players than the Os, so be it.  I don't believe that he thinks that though.

[Sports Guy]

In the spirit of this thread, I think the overall point is dead on.  When you have elite young players, especially when they aren't making any money, you want to take advantage of that.  Think of a team with a really good QB on a rookie contract.  That is the best asset in sports.  

This is the same thing.  You want to take advantage of guys making no money, thus allowing you to bring on other talent that is maybe expensive but justifiable to bring on because of the cheap contracts you have.

Part of doing that though is convincing players that this organization is going somewhere and soon.  You can't show pending FAs/trade candidates how good of a future we have by keeping guys down in the minors longer than you should.

People ask why you bring up Adley now...this is another reason for me.

[DrungoHazewood]

15 hours ago, Ruzious said:

And no matter what he does... he's not going to play in Baltimore this year. 

We'll see.

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

In the spirit of this thread, I think the overall point is dead on.  When you have elite young players, especially when they aren't making any money, you want to take advantage of that.  Think of a team with a really good QB on a rookie contract.  That is the best asset in sports.  

This is the same thing.  You want to take advantage of guys making no money, thus allowing you to bring on other talent that is maybe expensive but justifiable to bring on because of the cheap contracts you have.

Part of doing that though is convincing players that this organization is going somewhere and soon.  You can't show pending FAs/trade candidates how good of a future we have by keeping guys down in the minors longer than you should.

People ask why you bring up Adley now...this is another reason for me.

And no doubt that Adley's a special case - and the Baltimore Orioles fans are smart enough to know that.  It's frustrating to the fans knowing the O's are playing minor league level catchers at the Major League level while they have a potentially great player performing at a Major League level in the minors.    

[Moose Milligan]

On 6/16/2021 at 2:00 PM, DrungoHazewood said:

You have no doubt that the Orioles would have looked at a 19-year-old in AAA OPSing .940 and said "we'll keep him in AAA for two more full seasons"?  I think they would have done the same thing the Braves did, send him to AAA for a month of his age 20 season, then call him up.  Maybe a bit longer if he OPS'd the same .556 he did for Gwinnett.

The Orioles have never had a 19-year-old dominate AAA, at least not in a long time.  There's a plan, but the plan changes when you have a generational talent.

I have no doubt that if they did promote someone like that, they wouldn't have the foresight to lock him up to the contract that the Braves did.  

[Oriole1940]

This is a textbook example of just how irrelevant some jobs are. You take a subjective topic  and an overly biased analyst,  put them together and you have a textbook example of  who cares.

[DrungoHazewood]

21 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I have no doubt that if they did promote someone like that, they wouldn't have the foresight to lock him up to the contract that the Braves did.  

You really think that Elias and Angelos and Co wouldn't even think about that?  Four or five years later they'd collectively slap their foreheads and say "doggone it, if only we'd thought of locking Adley up like the Braves did with Acuna!  Maybe them guys on the interwebs really are smarter than us!"

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You really think that Elias and Angelos and Co wouldn't even think about that?  Four or five years later they'd collectively slap their foreheads and say "doggone it, if only we'd thought of locking Adley up like the Braves did with Acuna!  Maybe them guys on the interwebs really are smarter than us!"

Elias, yes.  Angelos, no.  

[OriolesMagic83]

It is a shame that the O's developmental system is still being docked for the errors of the past.  If Elias was in charge for say 5 years, that would be fair, but I feel like he is being penalized for the mistakes of Duquette.  Hopefully we have a lot of young, successful rookies next year, and Elias can be judged on his own record. 

[Sports Guy]

7 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

It is a shame that the O's developmental system is still being docked for the errors of the past.  If Elias was in charge for say 5 years, that would be fair, but I feel like he is being penalized for the mistakes of Duquette.  Hopefully we have a lot of young, successful rookies next year, and Elias can be judged on his own record. 

Huh?  The Orioles system is elevated by what happened in the past.  Many of their better prospects were here before Elias was even hired.