Valaika DFA. Mateo replaces him

[Frobby]

21 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Mike Yastremski, Donovan Solano, Alex Dickerson, Wilmer Flores, Darin Ruf, Thairo Estrada, Anthony DiScalfani, Mike Tuchman, Jose Alvarez, Kevin Gausman

Gausman had some serious struggles but I don’t know that I’d call him a “scrap heap” pickup.   The Giants paid him $9,000,000 (expected salary before the season was shortened) to come there last year.    Obviously he outperformed that and then the Giants gave him a QO, which has worked out well for both the team and Gausman, who will cash in big time if he remains healthy the rest of the season.   

[OriolesMagic83]

14 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

https://friarsonbase.com/2020/06/30/padres-make-sneaky-acquisition-jorge-mateo-athletics/

PCL or not, speed & triples don’t lie, good pickup.

“His 14 triples and 24 stolen bases were tops and seventh-best, respectively, in the Pacific Coast League last year. We also have the full scouting report on how fast this kid is.”

 

 

 

 A better hitting McKenna potentially?  Could be a good 4th OF, or even a starter if his bat improves, IMO.

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

100% on point. I'm not anti-Elias at all, but the system Elias uses to identify potential upside talent has not yielded much talent at all from waiver claims or major league ready talent. It remains to be seen whether the minor league players he acquired or the players he drafted or signed become good. 

I

Is Elias really doing any worse than your average GM? I think this is a pretty solid group to be honest.

Urias (waiver claim) - useful utility, possible starting 2B. 

Iglesias - 1 year $2.5M deal, had a great year for us, flipped for prospects

Tyler Wells (Rule 5) - useful reliever, possible starter

Cole Sulser (waiver claim) - useful reliever, can be a late inning guy

Richie Martin (Rule 5) - possible utility/defensive sub

Hanser Alberto (waiver claim) - platoon 2B now on Royals

Shawn Armstrong (waiver claim) - innings eater traded to Rays

Valdez (Mexican League) - closed for a while, innings eater

TBD: Mateo, Watkins, Dusten Knight

 

[Aristotelian]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Gausman had some serious struggles but I don’t know that I’d call him a “scrap heap” pickup.   The Giants paid him $9,000,000 (expected salary before the season was shortened) to come there last year.    Obviously he outperformed that and then the Giants gave him a QO, which has worked out well for both the team and Gausman, who will cash in big time if he remains healthy the rest of the season.   

Also $6M to Descalifini. Elias signed Galvis for $1.5M and Iglesias for $2.5M. Not really fair to compare but even so I think Elias is doing fine with his budget FA's. 

[Tony-OH]

22 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Is Elias really doing any worse than your average GM? I think this is a pretty solid group to be honest.

Urias (waiver claim) - useful utility, possible starting 2B. 

Iglesias - 1 year $2.5M deal, had a great year for us, flipped for prospects

Tyler Wells (Rule 5) - useful reliever, possible starter

Cole Sulser (waiver claim) - useful reliever, can be a late inning guy

Richie Martin (Rule 5) - possible utility/defensive sub

Hanser Alberto (waiver claim) - platoon 2B now on Royals

Shawn Armstrong (waiver claim) - innings eater traded to Rays

Valdez (Mexican League) - closed for a while, innings eater

TBD: Mateo, Watkins, Dusten Knight

 

If those players get you excited, then have at it. I've said my piece and have learned long ago to never get into a disagreements with apologists.

I will say good things about Elias when he does good things, and I will be critical of him when I think he deserves that as well. 

As for the players you mentioned, how many will be a significant part of a future winning Orioles team or traded for parts that will? 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

13 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

Um, ok, did you just use the terms dazzle and waiver wire acquisitions? C’mon man, that is ridiculous. Waiver claims rarely do much at all, maybe become a borderline regular. No GM dazzles with waiver claims. 

You’re anti-Elias rants are predictable and tiresome. 

. I am not anti-Elias, just grounded in reality. When DD was GM, everyone defended his every move. Now they think he is the devil. Personally, I thought DD was more good than bad (and was against the Davis signing). Elias is not a savior and has made some really questionable decisions. The draft being the big one. Not giving Yaz 30 days to see what he had is also being moronic. He comes from a scouting background, I would think he would find a nugget or two from the waiver wire, no? DD certainty did.

 

And it is funny, you are starting a fight with me over my post on here that is CHEERING this claim. I am actually applauding this pickup. 

 

 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If those players get you excited, then have at it. I've said my piece and have learned long ago to never get into a disagreements with apologists.

I will say good things about Elias when he does good things, and I will be critical of him when I think he deserves that as well. 

As for the players you mentioned, how many will be a significant part of a future winning Orioles team or traded for parts that will? 

You have an entire board of Elias apologists. Again, not anti-Elias, but it has a cult-like feel to it.

[LTO's]

1 hour ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Mike Yastremski, Donovan Solano, Alex Dickerson, Wilmer Flores, Darin Ruf, Thairo Estrada, Anthony DiScalfani, Mike Tuchman, Jose Alvarez, Kevin Gausman

Mike Tauchman was just DFAd. He was much better in NY than SF. Kevin Gausman is definitely not a scrap heap pick up in any way. Neither was Anthony Discalfani. Ramon Urias has a 1.3 fWAR. The two best position players on this list by fWAR are Mike Yaz (1.5) and Darin Ruf (1.8). Tyler Wells has the same fWAR as Jose Alvarez and a lower xfip. I think you are massively overrating these players and have a fundamental misunderstand as to why the Giants are good. 

[Aristotelian]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If those players get you excited, then have at it. I've said my piece and have learned long ago to never get into a disagreements with apologists.

I will say good things about Elias when he does good things, and I will be critical of him when I think he deserves that as well. 

As for the players you mentioned, how many will be a significant part of a future winning Orioles team or traded for parts that will? 

I am not super excited about that list, I am just wondering if it really compares unfavorably to other organizations. We all know about Yaz but he may be more the exception that proves the rule. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

You have an entire board of Elias apologists. Again, not anti-Elias, but it has a cult-like feel to it.

No, I don't think this board is full of Elias apologists, just like I don't think we have a ton of Elias haters.

Some people though refuse to look at things from all angles and instead always look at things through their biased viewpoint. 

I call every situation as I see them. We now have almost three years (though COVID season makes it more like two) to evaluate Elias on. Obviously we can't use on the field record of the major league team yet, so we must look at how what he's done to acquire talent that will be productive at the major league record and to start winning ball games soon (starting net year). 

He's lost two players for nothing (Yaz and Pop) who could have been part of the future and has not acquired anyone through waiver wires, trades or minor league signings that are not deep in the minor leagues and still an unknown quantity. 

Wells? I like him so maybe. Watkins? Small room for error but Elias wasn't exactly thrilled so much that he tried a bunch of others before him. Urias? Probably better suited to a utility role and is a below average defender. 

Now his drafting and development and his investment into Latin America are steps in the right direction, but we have to wait until it bears productive major leaguers before announcing that a success.

Elias' term as GM is an "incomplete" at this stage. He's like a prospect in AA who has some good tools, but has yet to show it at the upper levels. 

[Aristotelian]

No doubt Yasztremski for Herb was a bad trade for us in hindsight. Here is a thread from the time that garnered all of two pages of comments. Nobody seemed particularly heartbroken. 

 

 

[foxfield]

 

1 hour ago, Camden_yardbird said:

While that is true if we expand to player generally "picked off the scrap heap" which I would define as 1) waiver claims, 2) low profile free agent acquitions 3) players acquired for cash considerations or off of DFAs, I dont think Elias has shown any real skill in making these types of pickups.

And before we go and say that even those players rarely amount to much.  The Giants are the best team in the league, made up significantly by players like this.

Mike Yastremski, Donovan Solano, Alex Dickerson, Wilmer Flores, Darin Ruf, Thairo Estrada, Anthony DiScalfani, Mike Tuchman, Jose Alvarez, Kevin Gausman

Its a skill that good GMs have and not one that I think we can say Elias has shown particular skill in.  It is especially important on a rebuilding and low payroll team that has the time and spots to let those players play.  Players like that are found value, costing little and returning competitive value or trade value.

 

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

100% on point. I'm not anti-Elias at all, but the system Elias uses to identify potential upside talent has not yielded much talent at all from waiver claims or major league ready talent. It remains to be seen whether the minor league players he acquired or the players he drafted or signed become good. 

I

Cant argue any of the above.  So far, whatever analytical system Elias is using to acquire talent has not moved the needle at the ML level.  What the Giants have done...what Tampa has done definitely speaks to quality work by their GMs.  The obvious difference between those teams and the Orioles, is that the Orioles continue to say they are not focused on Major League results.  That doesn't excuse the lack of success by Elias...focus or not, it should be just as easy to pick up one cheap SS, 3b or 2B who can play, as opposed to one who can't.  

More importantly however, with so many young pieces near arrival, it seems increasingly likely that we will get a modified vision going into 2022.  Meaning that there will be a focus on Major League success starting next year, even if that focus is still trying to avoid the burden of winning.  Once that happens, the stop gap players that have paraded through will be harder to pass in my opinion.

I remain open to the fact that our talent acquisition has been laser focused on minor league.  And while I know many here have lost patience with the stop gap players, personally, I have accepted them.  But I think that time passes in October and I am looking forward to hearing about and seeing action regarding the vision of the Major League team.

 

____

Edit to add.  Judging Elias today is difficult.  The rebuild isn't going spectacularly well, but it is difficult to say it's a failure.  People are tired of losing and as Tony notes above, many judge through the lens of their own biases.  I am not thrilled, I am not panicked.  I do expect to hear the focus on the Major League team and it's success is upon us.  And I think this time next year we will have a much better set of data to go through.  Just like Elias' first draft....from 2019.

[Roll Tide]

You know … I have no ties to Valaika but Mateo is not a MLB hitter. He’s proven that over a good amount of time and his K rate is horrendous.

Im not sure this move doesn’t make the current team worse!

[BohKnowsBmore]

41 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

You know … I have no ties to Valaika but Mateo is not a MLB hitter. He’s proven that over a good amount of time and his K rate is horrendous.

Im not sure this move doesn’t make the current team worse!

Maybe, maybe not. He is a guy who could be something in the future, though.

[Tony-OH]

59 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

No doubt Yasztremski for Herb was a bad trade for us in hindsight. Here is a thread from the time that garnered all of two pages of comments. Nobody seemed particularly heartbroken. 

 

 

None of us had access to his EVs, bat speed, or any other metrics. No one here had the same information the Orioles had when it came to evaluating him so that's a flawed way of evaluating the move. Somehow the Giants saw something and somehow in a short amount a time he became an impact player.

The end results is the only metric to derive the outcome of the move. Elias owned Yaz, he gave him away. Yaz became an impact player. You can continue to make all the excuses for him that you want but at the end of the day, the result is he chose Dwight Smith Jr. over Yaz.