Olney on O’s losing

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I have bitched about those moves although I don’t really care about the Schoop move.  The KG trade was abysmal.

Well, I agree with you there.

If you want to win 64 games this year, having Schoop at 2nd instead of this flotsam is a pretty economical way to do it.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Sure.

Not enough changes to make this team good in that time frame.

That’s tough to say.  Depends on what you got back in the trades for Manny and Britton and how quickly those guys developed and played well.  
 

They certainly could be a contending (or at least highly competitive) team by now if those trades worked out well.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s tough to say.  Depends on what you got back in the trades for Manny and Britton and how quickly those guys developed and played well.  
 

They certainly could be a contending (or at least highly competitive) team by now if those trades worked out well.

Manny and Britton were both traded before Nov 2018.

We're all tired of critiquing DD and Buck.

And that's all you're doing; is relitigating the past.

The decisions made in 2016 were made.  As they were.  And we are living with them now one way or another.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Manny and Britton were both traded before Nov 2018.

We're all tired of critiquing DD and Buck.

And that's all you're doing; is relitigating the past.

The decisions made in 2016 were made.  As they were.  And we are living with them now one way or another.

No, I’m critiquing Elias for not doing more and not bringing in better Ml talent and I’m saying he needs to do more this offseason than he has.

You are the one bringing up the past.

[Nite]

I'm thinking this is the off-season that the O's need to sign their Magglio Ordóñez to add to the youngish talent already here and put their flag pole to the rest of the league that they are serious about trying again. 

Or find and take a chance on the next Wheeler like Philly did. 

There is talent here, and more in the minors. No need to tank another year at all. The sifting though what you have is over. It's getting kind of clear what the team needs to add. 

I'm sure we'll have long FA threads starting in October to specify the who to target, but I just feel like this team needs to start adding this off season. Not with intent to win anything in 2022, but to try and shift into a winning mindset to add the last pieces for 2023 and beyond. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Nite

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

No, I’m critiquing Elias for not doing more and not bringing in better Ml talent and I’m saying he needs to do more this offseason than he has.

You are the one bringing up the past.

LOL.

Me: What could Elias' realistically have done since he was hired to avoid the dumpster fire that is the ML club?

You: Well, if you let me get in a time machine and go back to two years before he was hired- five years ago from now- I would have made different moves which would have avoided this dumpster fire.

Me: Why are we talking about the past?

You: Why are we talking about the past?

[Pickles]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Obviously I don't.

But hey, maybe they could have afford to keep those coaches, or their beloved announcer.

I'd like to revisit the logic of this quote.

You think the Orioles are so incompetent that no matter how much money they spent they would fail to improve their team.

And yet at the same time you demand the Orioles spend more money to improve the team.

That isn't a very good argument.  

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think the O's would have done something to improve the team with that 23M?

Apparently I’m the only person in the world who believes that if you don’t spend $23 mm today, you have $23 mm available to spend tomorrow.   Most people seem to believe it just goes into the Angelos family’s pockets never to be seen again.  I don’t think that.  

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

LOL.

Me: What could Elias' realistically have done since he was hired to avoid the dumpster fire that is the ML club?

You: Well, if you let me get in a time machine and go back to two years before he was hired- five years ago from now- I would have made different moves which would have avoided this dumpster fire.

Me: Why are we talking about the past?

You: Why are we talking about the past?

I don’t know what’s so hard for you to get.  You asked the question going back to 2018.  Why would I do that without going back to when it really matters?

I already told you I’m good with everything Elias has done in terms of trades.  I’m good with a lot of what he has done in general.  I have said this a bunch of times and I have also said that Elias is probably the best thing to happen to the organization in at least 25 years.  
 

But I’m not ok with how he handled the last offseason in terms of (mainly) not addressing the pitching staff more and I want to see more this offseason.  My real judgement of him won’t come until ST of next year.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Apparently I’m the only person in the world who believes that if you don’t spend $23 mm today, you have $23 mm available to spend tomorrow.   Most people seem to believe it just goes into the Angelos family’s pockets never to be seen again.  I don’t think that.  

I'm sure someone else believes it.

But that person sure isn't me.

[Nite]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Apparently I’m the only person in the world who believes that if you don’t spend $23 mm today, you have $23 mm available to spend tomorrow.   Most people seem to believe it just goes into the Angelos family’s pockets never to be seen again.  I don’t think that.  

I believe that because logic dictates it.

What frustrates me the most about not only that point, but the whole idea that we couldn't keep Manny was because we blew our wad on CD. KNOWING Manny was going to be a FA. They chose CD over Manny and that either lack of foresight or just blatant choice still burns my crawl. That's been my massive issue with this team over the last 20 whatever years. The inability to just use any level of common sense in building and maintaining a team. 

[Pickles]

Just now, Nite said:

I believe that because logic dictates it.

What frustrates me the most about not only that point, but the whole idea that we couldn't keep Manny was because we blew our wad on CD. KNOWING Manny was going to be a FA. They chose CD over Manny and that either lack of foresight or just blatant choice still burns my crawl. That's been my massive issue with this team over the last 20 whatever years. The inability to just use any level of common sense in building and maintaining a team. 

Manny should have been extended after year 3 or so, like Adam Jones, and he would have been a real nice trade chip for the rebuild.

After we didn't extend him then, it was over.

But it is important to note, even extending Manny would have done little to improve the 2021 team's fortunes.  Unless, you didn't trade him, which common-sense would dictate you should.  
 

 

[ScGO's]

F Olney. After experiencing 1998-2011, I am no where near panic mode after the first three years of Elias.  If we can be winning by 2023, that will have been 6 straight losing seasons, nothing compared to the 14 we had prior to 2012.

I believe 2022 will also be a wash, but it will be extremely important for our minor league system as '22 will be the year we should hopefully collect a good pocket of talent at AAA (Adley, DHall, GrayRod, Westburg, Henderson, Baumann, etc). Going into 2023, we will finally be clear of Chris Davis' contract and I believe that's when we should sign a couple quality free agents, especially a pitcher. 

The winning we could do through the mid-late 2020's, early 2030's could put Olney to shame, but we have to go through this more probably one more season.

[Nite]

4 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Manny should have been extended after year 3 or so, like Adam Jones, and he would have been a real nice trade chip for the rebuild.

After we didn't extend him then, it was over.

But it is important to note, even extending Manny would have done little to improve the 2021 team's fortunes.  Unless, you didn't trade him, which common-sense would dictate you should.  
 

 

I'm using Manny as the example of just a complete lack of foresight mixed with terrible decisions is exactly why we are where we are. Keeping players like him over the last 20 years puts us where the Red Sox are in typical years. Always able to compete, and can reload quickly if needed. Instead we sign the CD of the world, get burned again, and the owner gets spending gun shy again due to being burned, AGAIN. 

[Pickles]

7 minutes ago, Nite said:

I'm using Manny as the example of just a complete lack of foresight mixed with terrible decisions is exactly why we are where we are. Keeping players like him over the last 20 years puts us where the Red Sox are in typical years. Always able to compete, and can reload quickly if needed. Instead we sign the CD of the world, get burned again, and the owner gets spending gun shy again due to being burned, AGAIN. 

Oh, don't get me wrong, he's a great example of organizational dysfunction.  

Just pointing out that in a haystack of crap, even one big turd doesn't explain the pile.