Clearing Roster space, October

[UMDTerrapins]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

I think between Rutschman and Mancini there should be some rest days.  And with Stowers and Neustrom probably being promoted at some point there will be coverage for DH.   By July there is probably room for an outfielder or Trey to be traded depending on Hays and Santander's injuries.

Assuming they aren't dealt this winter, we'd be very fortunate if Mancini and Santander could stay healthy and have a hot first half. But how often do we luck out like that!

[waroriole]

14 minutes ago, UMDTerrapins said:

Assuming they aren't dealt this winter, we'd be very fortunate if Mancini and Santander could stay healthy and have a hot first half. But how often do we luck out like that!

I mean it’s inevitable that we’re gonna have a need for OF by June 

[Can_of_corn]

32 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I mean it’s inevitable that we’re gonna have a need for OF by June 

We can just trade an established pitcher for one.  I hear that's how it works.

[Sports Guy]

56 minutes ago, UMDTerrapins said:

Assuming they aren't dealt this winter, we'd be very fortunate if Mancini and Santander could stay healthy and have a hot first half. But how often do we luck out like that!

I was told last offseason that you can’t trade Santander because he’s young and cheap and part of our OF for years to come.

The thought by some then was, wait Until the deadline and we will get so much more.

As I said last offseason, he is a big injury risk and is definitely a potential DFA/salary dump type candidate for this offseason.  Waiting until the deadline isn’t any kind of a guarantee.  
 

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I was told last offseason that you can’t trade Santander because he’s young and cheap and part of our OF for years to come.

The thought by some then was, wait Until the deadline and we will get so much more.

As I said last offseason, he is a big injury risk and is definitely a potential DFA/salary dump type candidate for this offseason.  Waiting until the deadline isn’t any kind of a guarantee.  
 

He should have been moved at the 2020 deadline.

[Aristotelian]

58 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I was told last offseason that you can’t trade Santander because he’s young and cheap and part of our OF for years to come.

The thought by some then was, wait Until the deadline and we will get so much more.

As I said last offseason, he is a big injury risk and is definitely a potential DFA/salary dump type candidate for this offseason.  Waiting until the deadline isn’t any kind of a guarantee.  
 

Trading or nontendering him now is a guarantee that we will get nothing in return. Why not give him two months to see if he can put up his 2020 numbers when healthy? Worst case we are out $3M.

[UMDTerrapins]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I was told last offseason that you can’t trade Santander because he’s young and cheap and part of our OF for years to come.

The thought by some then was, wait Until the deadline and we will get so much more.

As I said last offseason, he is a big injury risk and is definitely a potential DFA/salary dump type candidate for this offseason.  Waiting until the deadline isn’t any kind of a guarantee.  
 

I agree, but his trade value this offseason will be very unimpressive. I'd rather roll the dice in the hopes he can stay healthy and establish some value for the deadline.....very different situation this offseason than last. If we do actually manage to make a good trade including Santander this offseason, I'm all for it.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Trading or nontendering him now is a guarantee that we will get nothing in return. Why not give him two months to see if he can put up his 2020 numbers when healthy? Worst case we are out $3M.

It’s not a guarantee of anything.

I talked about a Brian Anderson in another thread.  That trade makes sense in a lot of ways.  Doesn’t mean the teams would do it but it has value to both sides.

There May he another equivalent player..ie a good upside player coming off a bad year that a team would do a swap of disappointing guys.

I also think you could likely get a few prospects for him.

What I don’t think you can get now are 1-2 top 10 guys or something along those lines.  I don’t think we are getting near ML ready guys unless they are a reliever or some kind of role player type piece.  

But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any value.  

[Aristotelian]

25 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s not a guarantee of anything.

I talked about a Brian Anderson in another thread.  That trade makes sense in a lot of ways.  Doesn’t mean the teams would do it but it has value to both sides.

There May he another equivalent player..ie a good upside player coming off a bad year that a team would do a swap of disappointing guys.

I also think you could likely get a few prospects for him.

What I don’t think you can get now are 1-2 top 10 guys or something along those lines.  I don’t think we are getting near ML ready guys unless they are a reliever or some kind of role player type piece.  

But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any value.  

Sure, I would listen to offers on Santander as well as Mancini. I also wouldn't mind holding out til the deadline to see if he boosts his value. Agreed, we are not getting any legit prospects right now but if he is putting up his 2020 numbers in July we just might. Could be worth a $3M gamble with no downside.  

[SteveA]

10 hours ago, UMDTerrapins said:

For the pre-Rule V 40 man roster, here's what I've got (in pencil):

Removed from 40 man - Pedro Severino, Pat Valaika, Rylan Bannon, Tyler Nevin, Richie Martin, Austin Wynns, Nick Ciuffo, Eric Hanhold, Thomas Eshelman, Travis Lakins Sr., Konner Wade, Fernando Abad, Matt Harvey, Spencer Watkins, Conner Greene

Fielders (14) - Trey Mancini, Jorge Mateo, Ramon Urias, Kelvin Gutierrez, Austin Hays, Cedric Mullins, Anthony Santander, Ryan Mountcastle, Ryan McKenna, DJ Stewart, Terrin Vavra, Robert Neustrom, Jahmai Jones, Yusniel Diaz

Pitchers (18) - John Means, Chris Ellis, Kyle Bradish, Bruce Zimmerman, DL Hall, Keegan Akin, Dean Kremer, Zac Lowther, Alex Wells, Tyler Wells, Cole Sulser, Tanner Scott, Hunter Harvey, Mike Baumann, Dillon Tate, Jorge Lopez, Felix Bautista

Fringe (8) - Kevin Smith, Paul Fry, Marcos Diplan, Joey Krehbiel, Brooks Kriske, Zack Burdi, Blaine Knight, Isaac Mattson

So that's 40 players before you start making cuts from the "fringe"category. And of course, this leaves no room for a Rule V addition, and contains absolutely zero catchers. On one hand, I'm happy to see that we finally have some decisions to make that are a little uncomfortable. I think Elias would probably be happy if he could trade some guys like Stewart, Diaz, Jones, Scott, Harvey along with more attractive pieces like Mancini and/or Santander. Or for 18-22 year old prospects in small deals. That fringe category isn't going to wow anyone, but it's not a total wasteland either. That group has to be cut down. If we're adding another starter this winter, and a 3B upgrade, a couple of catchers, and a Rule V pick, we need to make some moves/cuts to make space. Will be interesting to see what happens between the end of the WS and November 19th. 

Connor Greene has some pretty good stuff.  I would at least promote him to "fringe" at the expense of someone there, maybe Kriske or Knight.

And practically speaking I don't think we will have a 40 man roster at any point with zero catchers on it as you postulate.  While I agree that none of the C's is deserving of the top 40 (when you take into account Secerino's expected cost), I think one survives.  Wynns or Ciuffo.

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s not a guarantee of anything.

I talked about a Brian Anderson in another thread.  That trade makes sense in a lot of ways.  Doesn’t mean the teams would do it but it has value to both sides.

There May he another equivalent player..ie a good upside player coming off a bad year that a team would do a swap of disappointing guys.

I also think you could likely get a few prospects for him.

What I don’t think you can get now are 1-2 top 10 guys or something along those lines.  I don’t think we are getting near ML ready guys unless they are a reliever or some kind of role player type piece.  

But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any value.  

I agree Santander has value but think of it from the other teams POV? He’s good when healthy but he’s rarely healthy. His stats have been dragged down by playing injured but even playing injured he only played 110 games this season.

Trading him during the off-season would result in a poor return. Best to wait till the season and let him be healthy. He’s a desirable player when all cylinders are go, best wait till that is true.

[Sports Guy]

10 minutes ago, Philip said:

I agree Santander has value but think of it from the other teams POV? He’s good when healthy but he’s rarely healthy. His stats have been dragged down by playing injured but even playing injured he only played 110 games this season.

Trading him during the off-season would result in a poor return. Best to wait till the season and let him be healthy. He’s a desirable player when all cylinders are go, best wait till that is true.

This is wrong.  You have no idea when he will even be healthy and playing well.  It’s a gamble no matter what you do.

The reality is that if you can deal him now that you do it, assuming the deal is suitable for you. 
 

I have mentioned 2 Santander trades..one was taking on a bigger contract to get a prospect and another was swapping him out for a similar player but at a different position.

Any deal like that, if it can be agreed upon, should be done.  Yes, it’s possible that he gets healthy, plays well and you get more than that.  Banking on that is the definition of stupidity though.

Now, you don’t non tender him and you don’t dump him for nothing.  That would also be the definition of stupidity but essentially anything in between you should be doing.

[HowAboutThat]

35 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

This is wrong.  You have no idea when he will even be healthy andRegarding your first paragraph playing well.  It’s a gamble no matter what you do.

The reality is that if you can deal him now that you do it, assuming the deal is suitable for you. 
 

I have mentioned 2 Santander trades..one was taking on a bigger contract to get a prospect and another was swapping him out for a similar player but at a different position.

Any deal like that, if it can be agreed upon, should be done.  Yes, it’s possible that he gets healthy, plays well and you get more than that.  Banking on that is the definition of stupidity though.

Now, you don’t non tender him and you don’t dump him for nothing.  That would also be the definition of stupidity but essentially anything in between you should be doing.

Of course you never know what’s going to happen, but the truth is that he’s not healthy now. You’re literally selling damaged goods, and the other team isn’t interested. Regardless of what he can do when he’s healthy, he cannot do it when he’s not.

Trading him now would be trading at the low end of his value, and you’re not going to get anything back except some thing that is also damaged, that’s a lateral move, so why bother making it?

Of course we don’t nontender him, but equally of course, as you said we don’t trade him unless we get a good deal, and we won’t at this time.

Now let me stress that if we get a good deal, of course we make it, but I will also stress that it is highly unlikely that any deal made right now would not be a very good one. You have made a couple of suggestions, and we can make suggestions all day long, but if I’m the Marlins, I’m not the least bit interested in Santander, unless he is selling for a pittance.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

 

I have mentioned 2 Santander trades..one was taking on a bigger contract to get a prospect and another was swapping him out for a similar player but at a different position.

Any deal like that, if it can be agreed upon

Like in the fable, “who bells the cat?” You’re assuming that anybody would give up a meaningful prospect In order to unload a contract, I don’t think people are doing that anymore, certainly not for someone who is himself damaged goods, until he proves otherwise.

so sure”if it can be agreed upon.”

But that takes two, and remember the people on the other side of the table know exactly what they’re looking at.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, we're not going to get anything of value now for Santander.  For some reason, teams won't want the rejects of the worst team in baseball.  I'd rather pass on getting scraps for him and see if he can get himself healthy for a season - even if that's not likely to happen.  And it's not as if he's blocking anyone for the moment - especially if they don't keep Mancini.  They'll find a place for Stowers when they think he's ready.