I'm already over this offseason.

[Camden_yardbird]

52 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

There's no windows if you do it right.  

Thats not remotely true under the current structure of major league baseball.  Also its just not realistic.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

2021 wasn't about winning at all and in fact you can make an argument about how they promoted guys that Elias did everything not to win.

First, you had innings limits on pitchers because of the missed year. Then you had the weird split spring training and other than Mountcastle, he didn't have legitimate "impact" prospects ready. 

On the pitching side he thought he had Kremer, Akins and Zimmermann ready, but Akin and Kremer crapped the bed and Zimmermann couldn't stay healthy. I've been saying for years that Akin is going to be a reliever and still think so, only Kremer was a giant disappointment in my mind. Lowther was handled awfully then he had the shoulder discomfort and didn't throw well until September when he was in a starter's routine and was used every 5 days.

When he needed to promote guys, especially pitchers, he didn't bring up prospects until he finally gave Alex Wells and Lowther a chance, but the cast of guys he brought up weren't major league pitchers. 

This year I think Lowther will be treated like a starting pitching prospect that he is, Tyler Wells should be given an opportunity to start, and hopefully Zimmermann will be able to stay healthy.

Grayson Rodriguez is close to being ready if he's not already, Rom is not far off, and now they have Baumann and Bradish ready, though I think they both are relievers.

With Rutschman ready, and Stowers close, he has two potential impact players ready.

So I guess I just see this as more of a true evaluation year. Other than 3B, we have have legitimate players at every position. 

Pitching wise, this team is not ready so I won't argue there, but I don't think this team is ready to start signing bigger named pitchers until they know what they really got. Plus, I'm not sure I see the pitcher(s) that will be good now and more important, in 2024 when I think they SHOULD be legitimate contenders. 

 

 

I think a big part of the young pitchers failure is that they were rushed IMO.   Most if not all hardly pitched at AAA and when they did they were not very good.   Elias and Holt thought that what the young pitchers did at the alternate site in 2020 what equal to AAA.  Turns out that was wrong.

The only young O's starter that has substantial time at AAA with some success is Alex Wells and Hyde looks at him as a long reliever.

I think in 2022 we will see that young starters that Elias thinks the most of  be in AAA before they are promoted to the majors.

[Sports Guy]

Lol..now the starters were rushed.  Gotta love it!

[Moose Milligan]

2 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Thats not remotely true under the current structure of major league baseball.  Also its just not realistic.

Why are the Cardinals good every year?

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Why are the Cardinals good every year?

Even worse living with the knowledge that Cardinals owner Bill DeWitt Jr. could have been the Orioles owner all this time, but thanks to Peter Angelos outbidding him it never happened. 

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

While I agree that concrete performance evaluation is necessary to a certain extent the "Calvary" was an Orioles article about a group of prospects that Orioles fans could latch on to but in reality only contained 1-2 mid 100 ranked prospects and some good organizational prospects.

Adley and Grayson are the #1 positional and #1 pitching prospects in the game and Hall is also top 100.  Making sure they, and the team, can succeed from day 1 is important.

Going into 2009, Tillman was BA’s no. 22 prospect, Matusz no. 25, Arrieta no. 67.   Britton wasn’t ranked yet but was no. 63 the next year.  Brad Bergesen was the reigning Eastern League pitcher of the year.   David Hernandez had led the league. In strikeouts.   So, it was a more impressive group than your post suggests.   

[HowAboutThat]

4 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Thats not remotely true under the current structure of major league baseball.  Also its just not realistic.

On the contrary, it is completely true. The team will have ebbs and flows, based on random chance And misfortune such as is happening to Kjested right now, But if you avoid long-term contracts, all of which are stupid, trade your guys at peak value and restock the farm, and there’s no reason why you can’t continually be a positive team.

The Cardinals do it and they never have a single digit draft choice they always draft in the high teens, and yet they still have a good team over and over.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

40 minutes ago, Philip said:

On the contrary, it is completely true. The team will have ebbs and flows, based on random chance And misfortune such as is happening to Kjested right now, But if you avoid long-term contracts, all of which are stupid, trade your guys at peak value and restock the farm, and there’s no reason why you can’t continually be a positive team.

The Cardinals do it and they never have a single digit draft choice they always draft in the high teens, and yet they still have a good team over and over.

Cardinals were smart enough not to resign Pujols when he hit his 30’s knowing he would never be able to match the production from the first decade of his career.

With the way the Orioles have operated during the Angelos era they almost certainly resign a player of that caliber. It’s a mistake you can’t make when you’re not the Yankees or Dodgers.

The Cardinals usually avoid these kind of crippling moves and that keeps them competitive. With Elias hopefully we see that with the O’s. 

[Roll Tide]

So …if they can get 8 or 9 quality prospects for Means and Mullins it could be a pretty interesting off season 

[Can_of_corn]

34 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So …if they can get 8 or 9 quality prospects for Means and Mullins it could be a pretty interesting off season 

At this stage I'd rather have quality over quantity.

[Roll Tide]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

At this stage I'd rather have quality over quantity.

I’d expect plenty of quality with 2 players worth 9 WAR

[Camden_yardbird]

10 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Why are the Cardinals good every year?

This one is easy.

1.  They are in a division with three small market teams, two of whom don't even try (pirates, reds) most of the time.  (I.e. the same reason the Patriots were a 2000's dynasty).

2.  They are the 6th most valuable franchise.  They have some of the best TV revenues in the game.  Thry have tons of resources to devote to the product. 

3.  On top of that they spend a lot of their earnings into the product, while a top 6 valued franchise they frequently operate in the middle of the pack in revenues. (This would be a good owner - something the Orioles can't depend on)

4.  Despite the above they have convinced MLB to get extra draft picks because of their metro area.  They are a large valuation team get the benefits of a small metro area team.  

So in conclusion:

The Orioles could follow their model if they get a new owner, division, and expanded their revenue streams (which likely isn't possible).

 

[Sports Guy]

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

So …if they can get 8 or 9 quality prospects for Means and Mullins it could be a pretty interesting off season 

This sounds awful.  This team doesn’t need quantity deals for these guys.

[Sports Guy]

8 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Cardinals were smart enough not to resign Pujols when he hit his 30’s knowing he would never be able to match the production from the first decade of his career.

With the way the Orioles have operated during the Angelos era they almost certainly resign a player of that caliber. It’s a mistake you can’t make when you’re not the Yankees or Dodgers.

The Cardinals usually avoid these kind of crippling moves and that keeps them competitive. With Elias hopefully we see that with the O’s. 

The Cards tried to keep Pujols and offered him a deal that had he accepted, would have been very regrettable.  It just wasn’t as bad as what the Angels offered.

Sometimes, the deal you don’t make is the best one but there is also luck involved there.

[Frobby]

26 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The Cards tried to keep Pujols and offered him a deal that had he accepted, would have been very regrettable.  It just wasn’t as bad as what the Angels offered.

Sometimes, the deal you don’t make is the best one but there is also luck involved there.

This is true, but the Cardinals probably would have managed the problem better than the Angels did.   There’s no doubt they’re a well run organization.