MLB Lockout Thread

[Sports Guy]

23 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Looking for breakout seasons in 2022...

 

 

They stop doing this right after the Orioles move the fences back in LF.  Coincidence?  I think not!

[forphase1]

50 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because that is the current standard.   More likely it wouldn't change.

Maybe, maybe not.  Using AAV to determine the competitive balance tax is not the same as using it to determine a spending floor.  Depends on if they want it to be a 'soft' floor, that can be easily manipulated by things like AAV, so teams could very well be under said floor if contracts are heavily backloaded, or if they want a 'hard' floor, where actual dollars spent in a given year is the goal/factor, and not what may or may not be paid by the team in the future.  The devil will be in the details, and we simply don't know what those details are going to be, if any.  A floor may not take place at all, but if it does I'm not sure AAV will be how they determine if a team is over or under it.  

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Maybe, maybe not.  Using AAV to determine the competitive balance tax is not the same as using it to determine a spending floor.  Depends on if they want it to be a 'soft' floor, that can be easily manipulated by things like AAV, so teams could very well be under said floor if contracts are heavily backloaded, or if they want a 'hard' floor, where actual dollars spent in a given year is the goal/factor, and not what may or may not be paid by the team in the future.  The devil will be in the details, and we simply don't know what those details are going to be, if any.  A floor may not take place at all, but if it does I'm not sure AAV will be how they determine if a team is over or under it.  

To be clear, I don’t think a floor is on the table and it’s just something I have said.  To me, it would have to be the hard floor if you are going to do it.  
 

It defeats the purpose and intent of the floor if you allow that type of manipulation.

[Ohfan67]

On 2/4/2022 at 3:29 PM, wildcard said:

It can be about money and they still can want to beat each other.

True dat. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

To be clear, I don’t think a floor is on the table and it’s just something I have said.  To me, it would have to be the hard floor if you are going to do it.  
 

It defeats the purpose and intent of the floor if you allow that type of manipulation.

Kinda like they allow service time to be manipulated?

[Bahama O's Fan]

I like the idea of a floor and a cap. Keep things more competitive. As far as a floor goes, even if it is a hard floor, I guess you could redo current contracts and front load them for this year and next. 

[waroriole]

22 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

There is no current standard for a salary floor because one doesn't exist.

Exactly. Plus other leagues that have limits and requirements on team payroll evaluate it on a yearly basis. NBA and NFL don’t use AAV. 

[jarman86]

Just got a tweet notification confirmed Rob Manfred resigning only to find out it isn't a verified source....man was I on cloud 9 for like 10 seconds. Anyway to get back to it? I can still hope he announces at press conference tomorrow right?

[Tony-OH]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:34 PM, Sports Guy said:

I don’t want to put a go nowhere team on the field just to win 72 games.

But if you actually want to contend anytime soon and you have good young players who are getting time, I can’t fathom how anyone doesn’t see the value in 72 wins vs 55.  To think they are going from 55 to 90 wins in a year or 2 just isn’t realistic.

And being a more watchable product is important to most fans, especially with how crappy the team has been for most of the last 25 years.

I find this year (if it happens) to be the year where we should be surrounding our young players with players to help them win now. I'd be happy with a 2022 Orioles team with 72 wins because it would be a transition year. 

I think that's what Elias was beginning to do when this lockout occurred. This year should not be a team where Elias is bringing up non major leaguers to fill out his roster while watching the team head to another 100 loss season. f it is, I'd be very disappointed and start questioning his methods on building a competitive major league team.

[Tony-OH]

On 2/7/2022 at 4:18 PM, DrungoHazewood said:

Louisville went from 27-111 (66.5 out) to 88-44 (10 games up) in one year, '89 to '90.  All it took was a player's revolt, a third league stealing half the talent in the established leagues, and a career year out of Chicken Wolf.

So, yea, I'm saying we have a chance.

The only things that's important about any of this is that is there used to be a guy named Chicken Wolf in the major leagues. Now that's a guy you can root for!

[Tony-OH]

On 2/8/2022 at 10:58 AM, LookinUp said:

Looking for breakout seasons in 2022...

 

 

Probably more like 2023 if no agreement is reached with the unions to reinstate this testing. Players right now would be too worried something being agreed to for 2022 so they're less likely to risk using anything. 

[Tony-OH]

On 2/8/2022 at 8:37 AM, Sports Guy said:

Oh ok.  I don’t know why they would do that though?  How does that help get teams to spend year in and year out?

The whole purpose is to get teams to spend more and not tank.  Kicking the can down the road isn’t helpful.  Plus, it potentially becomes a real issue if the player sucks and you can’t get rid of the deal.

One thing to clarify here, the whole purpose of a floor is to make teams pay more for players instead of going cheap while tanking. it has nothing to do with competitiveness or awful teams to the MLBPA. They've made it very clear that they are about making more money and could care less about competitiveness across the league. They are worried about creating an environment where players make more money no matter what.

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

One thing to clarify here, the whole purpose of a floor is to make teams pay more for players instead of going cheap while tanking. it has nothing to do with competitiveness or awful teams to the MLBPA. They've made it very clear that they are about making more money and could care less about competitiveness across the league. They are worried about creating an environment where players make more money no matter what.

But it absolutely helps competitiveness.  We may think Lyles sucks and he certainly may and prove to be a guy you DFa by June but the reality is that he is more likely to give us 180 innings of sub 5.2 ERA baseball than anyone on the staff outside of Means and that makes us better and more competitive.

It absolutely eliminates the idea of tanking and tanking to the point where you are barely fielding a ML product.  You will still see teams winning only 65ish games but sub 55 win teams may go away.

Now, I do agree that the players don’t actually care about that but that is what they will say and they aren’t wrong.  

[orioles119]

2 hours ago, jarman86 said:

Just got a tweet notification confirmed Rob Manfred resigning only to find out it isn't a verified source....man was I on cloud 9 for like 10 seconds. Anyway to get back to it? I can still hope he announces at press conference tomorrow right?

I got the same notification, but it is certainly false.  He is speaking to the media tomorrow, more likely to announce the inevitable postponement of Spring Training.

[jarman86]

It was such a good feeling while it lasted. Dude is incompetent as heck. Love that he already is trying to get federal government to step in.