MLB Lockout Thread

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

The average ML salary is over 4 million per year.  I notice you also take no conisderation of the considerable costs in running a ML franchise.  With that taken into the equation, we're getting awful close to what they should expect according to you.

I mean the players have a right to try to get more of the pie.  And I make no strong comment on the current round of negotiations.

But this idea that retired players are being forced to live in boxes and eat cat food after retiring from baseball because of the pernicious greed of the owners is going a little far in this thread.

Yea, that is going too far.  Thank goodness no one is saying that.

We had one poster who was suggesting that a five year career shouldn't be enough to "set up" the rest of your life.  The rest of us were responding to that idea.

 

[Pickles]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Yea, that is going too far.  Thank goodness no one is saying that.

We had one poster who was suggesting that a five year career shouldn't be enough to "set up" the rest of your life.  The rest of us were responding to that idea.

 

You literally just suggested a man who makes a few million in his mid 20s, and is given lifetime healthcare, will be forced to bag groceries at aged 60 to pay for his used car under this system.

You said it.

It's laughable.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Because revenue is directly correlated to winning.  It isn't a mystery.

 

It impacts it sure, but it is hardly the only, or even necessarily the biggest, factor.

With 12 teams making the playoffs I think it is mostly a convenient excuse.  Every year lower payroll teams make the playoffs.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

You literally just suggested a man who makes a few million in his mid 20s, and is given lifetime healthcare, will be forced to bag groceries at aged 60 to pay for his used car under this system.

You said it.

It's laughable.

Can you read?

I was responding to the idea the other poster was positing.

I was not saying that was, or should be, the actual current situation that those former players will find themselves in.

Seriously, take a second and think next time.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

It impacts it sure, but it is hardly the only, or even necessarily the biggest, factor.

With 12 teams making the playoffs I think it is mostly a convenient excuse.  Every year lower payroll teams make the playoffs.

 

You can show me a factor that corresponds more closely to winning than revenue?

I bet you can't.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Can you read?

I was responding to the idea the other poster was positing.

I was not saying that was, or should be, the actual current situation that those former players will find themselves in.

Seriously, take a second and think next time.

This is what you wrote:

"But if you play MLB for five years you shouldn't have to be bagging groceries when your 60 to pay off your used car."

It's a laughably moronic thing to write and believe.

If a guy who makes a few million in his mid 20s playing baseball ends up bagging groceries at the age of 60 to pay for his used car, no amount of money will fix what has obviously been a decade long series of terrible decisions.

It's a moronic hypothetical.  Sorry.

[SteveA]

Interesting article on mlbtraderumors.com on how cancelled games could affect service time.   Obviously, this would be negotiated in any settlement.   But if we play a significantly shorter season so that players can't get 172+ days of service time, under existing rules that would mean free agency would be delayed for a year for a lot of guys, such as Trey Mancini for example.   Obviously the players wouldn't stand for this and somehow it would probably be worked into the eventual settlement.   But if it wasn't, a whole ton of players would find themselves under team control for another year.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/canceled-regular-season-games-raise-the-possibility-for-a-dispute-regarding-service-time.html

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Interesting article on mlbtraderumors.com on how cancelled games could affect service time.   Obviously, this would be negotiated in any settlement.   But if we play a significantly shorter season so that players can't get 172+ days of service time, under existing rules that would mean free agency would be delayed for a year for a lot of guys, such as Trey Mancini for example.   Obviously the players wouldn't stand for this and somehow it would probably be worked into the eventual settlement.   But if it wasn't, a whole ton of players would find themselves under team control for another year.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/canceled-regular-season-games-raise-the-possibility-for-a-dispute-regarding-service-time.html

Surely the players will get those concessions.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

This is what you wrote:

"But if you play MLB for five years you shouldn't have to be bagging groceries when your 60 to pay off your used car."

It's a laughably moronic thing to write and believe.

If a guy who makes a few million in his mid 20s playing baseball ends up bagging groceries at the age of 60 to pay for his used car, no amount of money will fix what has obviously been a decade long series of terrible decisions.

It's a moronic hypothetical.  Sorry.

Are you dim?

Did you read, and understand, the whole thread?

I'll say it again, I was responding to the person who said this

Quote

Wait, do you really think baseball should be set up in such a way that anyone who plays in the MLB for 5 years should make enough to be set up for the rest of their lives? 

That person evidently thinks a five year MLB shouldn't put a player in a position in which they don't have to work after their career is over.

To me someone that needs to take a minimum wage job to pay off a used car is a fine example of someone that has to work.

 

Sorry if that's confusing for you.

I hope my explanation helped.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Pickles said:

You can show me a factor that corresponds more closely to winning than revenue?

I bet you can't.

 Of course not.

Payroll is easily tracked.

Competent ownership is a far more nebulous concept.

Doesn't mean that the Rays weren't in the playoffs last season while the Mets were at home.

[Moose Milligan]

23 minutes ago, Big Mac said:

I'd like to use Tyler Wilson as an example.  He pitched 145 innings over parts of three MLB seasons and made about 1.022M and has a degree from UVA.  A player like him should be able to transition to a normal career and have a comfortable life.  Plus again, he has the pension and health insurance for life. 

 

This is what it's about, I agree.  It's easy to look at the high paid guys and say they're spoiled brats and whiners, but I think the high paid guys would be the first to tell you that it's not always about them.  

Now...Tyler Wilson still made good money.  Not a crazy amount, but 1.022 isn't pocket change.  And he's only 32 years old, plus he pitched in the KBO where he made 800k and then 1.5 million, then 1.6 million.  

That's not generational wealth, but I think practically anyone would like to be 32 years old.  If he did it right, saved and invested properly, he won't have to work really hard for the rest of his life.

Set aside the KBO stuff, 1.022 million is still a decent chunk but it doesn't allow him to retire young.  In regards to the pension, I am not sure if he had enough service time to earn it.

I'm rambling, whatever.  The point is that for every Scherzer, there's dozens of guys like this who don't even come within sniffing distance of that amount of money.

[Big Mac]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

This is what it's about, I agree.  It's easy to look at the high paid guys and say they're spoiled brats and whiners, but I think the high paid guys would be the first to tell you that it's not always about them.  

Now...Tyler Wilson still made good money.  Not a crazy amount, but 1.022 isn't pocket change.  And he's only 32 years old, plus he pitched in the KBO where he made 800k and then 1.5 million, then 1.6 million.  

That's not generational wealth, but I think practically anyone would like to be 32 years old.  If he did it right, saved and invested properly, he won't have to work really hard for the rest of his life.

Set aside the KBO stuff, 1.022 million is still a decent chunk but it doesn't allow him to retire young.  In regards to the pension, I am not sure if he had enough service time to earn it.

I'm rambling, whatever.  The point is that for every Scherzer, there's dozens of guys like this who don't even come within sniffing distance of that amount of money.

I'm not sure the current status to be eligible for a pension, but at least in 2011 you only needed 43 days of service to be fully vested in the pension which started at $34k/year.

Here is an article from the law firm Bryan Cave from 2011 that goes into this:

https://www.bclplaw.com/en-US/insights/blogs/benefits-bclp/major-league-baseball-pension-and-healthcare-benefits.html#:~:text=Arguably%2C Major League Baseball (",a player for lifetime healthcare.

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Big Mac said:

I'm not sure the current status to be eligible for a pension, but at least in 2011 you only needed 43 days of service to be fully vested in the pension which started at $34k/year.

Here is an article from the law firm Bryan Cave from 2011 that goes into this:

https://www.bclplaw.com/en-US/insights/blogs/benefits-bclp/major-league-baseball-pension-and-healthcare-benefits.html#:~:text=Arguably%2C Major League Baseball (",a player for lifetime healthcare.

 

And that's great.

But one divorce with child support attached and it's gone.

It's a wonderful thing to have for sure, but it ain't a panacea.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

And that's great.

But one divorce with child support attached and it's gone.

It's a wonderful thing to have for sure, but it ain't a panacea.

Then don't get divorced.  Problem solved.

[DrungoHazewood]

41 minutes ago, Pickles said:

The average ML salary is over 4 million per year.  I notice you also take no conisderation of the considerable costs in running a ML franchise.  With that taken into the equation, we're getting awful close to what they should expect according to you.

I mean the players have a right to try to get more of the pie.  And I make no strong comment on the current round of negotiations.

But this idea that retired players are being forced to live in boxes and eat cat food after retiring from baseball because of the pernicious greed of the owners is going a little far in this thread.

It was a high level example, and I assumed the owners got 50% of the revenues.  I think that's fairly close to reality, and they take non-payroll operating expenses out of that.