Bashing The O’s

[Roll Tide]

Quote

There really is no excuse to be so cheap. The owners should sell the teams to people who actually care and aren’t afraid to pay for a good team.

Braves star Joc Pederson rightfully crushed the three teams:

 

 

 

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/braves-joc-pederson-ripped-owners-of-pirates-orioles-guardians

[Frobby]

We already had a thread on Pederson’s tweet today.   

As to the point about TV money, it’s not like payroll is the only expense a baseball team has, so it’s kind of irrelevant what one revenue stream and one expense item are.   Back in 2018, the Orioles’ non-payroll expenses were $96.5 mm per Forbes.   

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We already had a thread on Pederson’s tweet today.   

As to the point about TV money, it’s not like payroll is the only expense a baseball team has, so it’s kind of irrelevant what one revenue stream and one expense item are.   Back in 2018, the Orioles’ non-payroll expenses were $96.5 mm per Forbes.   

I wonder if that included the interest payments on the loans Peter made to the team? 

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I wonder if that included the interest payments on the loans Peter made to the team? 

Do not know.  As I recall, the O’s non-payroll expenses were low compared to most teams.

[Roll Tide]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

Do not know.  As I recall, the O’s non-payroll expenses were low compared to most teams.

As the most devout of Orioles fans, I’m surprised that you would try in anyway to defend it. Fans pay to watch the MLB product and the floundering has gone on long enough.

Obviously didn’t see the other thread. But, thanks for pointing it out.

[Moose Milligan]

20 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

As the most devout of Orioles fans, I’m surprised that you would try in anyway to defend it. Fans pay to watch the MLB product and the floundering has gone on long enough.

Obviously didn’t see the other thread. But, thanks for pointing it out.

I don't think Frobby is defending anything.  He's just merely pointing out that there are other expenses we don't take into account when running a baseball team.  And yes, each team gets at least $100 million before a pitch is thrown.  But if, as Froberto Duran pointed out, your non-player payroll expenses were at $96.5 million...it could be kind of a wash, right?

Maybe (and I realize I'm going out on a limb in saying this), just maybe not everything is as black and white as we'd like it to be.  If you want to ignore the possibility for gray areas...well, life must be really nice viewing everything in stark black and white contrast.

That said, I was the one that posted the Joc Pederson thread and I'm annoyed about the incredibly low payroll, too.  I do believe the Orioles could spend significantly more than they currently are.  

Yesterday, Connolly in a chat for The Athletic stated that the plan all along has been for the Orioles to build a decent team from within and then finally supplement it with players once they're respectable.  I find that to be a pretty stupid strategy, they should be looking to acquire talent whenever/wherever they can.  Mind you, I don't want them spending money like a drunken idiot but at the same time there have been opportunities to add talent at reasonable salaries and they've chosen not to for this dumbass reason.  As a result, we have to watch another largely **** pitching staff this summer.

[Sports Guy]

Well, we basically know that the Os essentially treat MASN as a separate entity, so they don’t even look at those profits as what the team is making.

And the other thing is that the Os could be using what money they do have to “buy prospects”.  Take on a contract to get another prospect or 2.  We saw the Padres trying to off load Hosmer and being willing to include Hassell.  We saw the Angels do with this with the Giants a few years ago.

Thats one of my other issues with all of this is that, as Moose said, we should always be looking to acquire talent by all means.  
 

But Elias is just not allowed to do it.  He basically said so.  He has been able to go only so far because he is held back by ownership. 

[geschinger]

27 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yesterday, Connolly in a chat for The Athletic stated that the plan all along has been for the Orioles to build a decent team from within and then finally supplement it with players once they're respectable.  I find that to be a pretty stupid strategy, they should be looking to acquire talent whenever/wherever they can.  Mind you, I don't want them spending money like a drunken idiot but at the same time there have been opportunities to add talent at reasonable salaries and they've chosen not to for this dumbass reason.  As a result, we have to watch another largely **** pitching staff this summer.

The Orioles brought in a braintrust from an organization that was rebuilt from the ground up and  won a WS to implement a similar strategy in Baltimore.  I know you've said several times it's a stupid strategy but I'm not clear how you are arrive at that conclusion considering how wildly successful it has been so recently.  

Maybe it really is a dumb strategy, maybe it's analagous to the triangle offense in the NBA and only works with the specific conditions Phil Jackson had in Chicago and is destined to fail elsewhere.  I hope not and up until this point I see no evidence the strategy will fail in Baltimore.

[Aristotelian]

Seems like a dumb strategy would be to run the Orioles like the Dodgers and Yankees on 1/3 of the budget.

[Sports Guy]

31 minutes ago, geschinger said:

The Orioles brought in a braintrust from an organization that was rebuilt from the ground up and  won a WS to implement a similar strategy in Baltimore.  I know you've said several times it's a stupid strategy but I'm not clear how you are arrive at that conclusion considering how wildly successful it has been so recently.  

Maybe it really is a dumb strategy, maybe it's analagous to the triangle offense in the NBA and only works with the specific conditions Phil Jackson had in Chicago and is destined to fail elsewhere.  I hope not and up until this point I see no evidence the strategy will fail in Baltimore.

What dumb about it is thinking you must lose on purpose to accomplish these goals.  It’s just wrong.  It doesn’t matter if it “worked” in the past, it was dumb then too. 
 

You don’t need 4-5 years of sustained losing to build up an organization.  You want to jump start it for a few years in the beginning?  That’s fine.  I’m all for that.  
 

COVID screwed some things up, so I’m ok with 2021 although I think they should have added more pitching.  That said, 2022 shouldn’t be treated the same.

[OriolesMagic83]

59 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, we basically know that the Os essentially treat MASN as a separate entity, so they don’t even look at those profits as what the team is making.

And the other thing is that the Os could be using what money they do have to “buy prospects”.  Take on a contract to get another prospect or 2.  We saw the Padres trying to off load Hosmer and being willing to include Hassell.  We saw the Angels do with this with the Giants a few years ago.

Thats one of my other issues with all of this is that, as Moose said, we should always be looking to acquire talent by all means.  
 

But Elias is just not allowed to do it.  He basically said so.  He has been able to go only so far because he is held back by ownership. 

Yeah, MASN has to conserve their money to pay for all that quality programming.  MASN should stand for Maryland Angelos Slushfund Network.

[Moose Milligan]

37 minutes ago, geschinger said:

The Orioles brought in a braintrust from an organization that was rebuilt from the ground up and  won a WS to implement a similar strategy in Baltimore.  I know you've said several times it's a stupid strategy but I'm not clear how you are arrive at that conclusion considering how wildly successful it has been so recently.  

Maybe it really is a dumb strategy, maybe it's analagous to the triangle offense in the NBA and only works with the specific conditions Phil Jackson had in Chicago and is destined to fail elsewhere.  I hope not and up until this point I see no evidence the strategy will fail in Baltimore.

You tell me why we couldn't have signed Ed-Rod this offseason.  

[geschinger]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

What dumb about it is thinking you must lose on purpose to accomplish these goals.  It’s just wrong.  It doesn’t matter if it “worked” in the past, it was dumb then too. 

You don’t need 4-5 years of sustained losing to build up an organization.  You want to jump start it for a few years in the beginning?  That’s fine.  I’m all for that.  

COVID screwed some things up, so I’m ok with 2021 although I think they should have added more pitching.  That said, 2022 shouldn’t be treated the same.

2022 is not about losing on purpose.  It is a season like the 2014 Astros.  If the Orioles win 15 more games than they did in 2021 givng as many innings and ABs as possible to young players to see what they have is success.  It will mean the pipeline is starting to pay off w/MLB caliber talent.  If they have another year like 2021 it's a failure. 

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, geschinger said:

2022 is not about losing on purpose.  It is a season like the 2014 Astros.  If the Orioles win 15 more games than they did in 2021 givng as many innings and ABs as possible to young players to see what they have is success.  It will mean the pipeline is starting to pay off w/MLB caliber talent.  If they have another year like 2021 it's a failure. 

The Orioles aren’t trying to win games in 2022.  If they happen to win more games because young players came up and performed, so be it.  But they enter 2022 the same way they entered 2021. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, geschinger said:

2022 is not about losing on purpose.  It is a season like the 2014 Astros.  If the Orioles win 15 more games than they did in 2021 givng as many innings and ABs as possible to young players to see what they have is success.  It will mean the pipeline is starting to pay off w/MLB caliber talent.  If they have another year like 2021 it's a failure. 

Of course it isn't.  They changed the rules to make losing games on purpose less useful.  Now it is just a by product of intentionally losing in previous years.