Elias prioritizes player development over winning in the majors

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That has been confirmed for a while now.

But don’t worry, I keep being told that all of these guys will get sufficient ML time this year and we will spend in the offseason and be ready to contend (or borderline contend) in 2023.

Somehow that’s going to happen with these guys in the minors but hey, it’s happening!!!

Agreed.  

Again, I refuse to get mad at water for being wet. 

That said, I will say that I think Elias is pretty stupid to put all his eggs in one basket.  His plan assumes that a lot of these guys are going to contribute positively before spending any money.  That, IMO, is hubris.  Once again, I'm not mad at him for doing what he saying he'll do...I just happen to disagree with the refusal to spend and have good players on the roster once these guys come up.

But this is the year, no more excuses.  These guys do have to come up this year or it's a complete waste.  

 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That has been confirmed for a while now.

But don’t worry, I keep being told that all of these guys will get sufficient ML time this year and we will spend in the offseason and be ready to contend (or borderline contend) in 2023.

Somehow that’s going to happen with these guys in the minors but hey, it’s happening!!!

I think we need to separate (1) being more competitive by acquiring free agents or trading for veteran players, versus (2) being more competitive by bringing up talent to the majors.    The first has significant, immediate financial cost.   The second doesn’t have much financial cost except in maybe a few cases.   I believe at this point the O’s are going to bring guys up when they believe that’s the best thing for their development and the team’s performance.   Those things can be judgment calls, and so a fan’s opinion of when someone is ready may be different from the team’s opinion.   But it is in the team’s interests to have the players become as good as they can be, and I believe that is their priority here.  

[osfan83]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Agreed.  

Again, I refuse to get mad at water for being wet. 

That said, I will say that I think Elias is pretty stupid to put all his eggs in one basket.  His plan assumes that a lot of these guys are going to contribute positively before spending any money.  That, IMO, is hubris.  Once again, I'm not mad at him for doing what he saying he'll do...I just happen to disagree with the refusal to spend and have good players on the roster once these guys come up.

But this is the year, no more excuses.  These guys do have to come up this year or it's a complete waste.  

 

I agree, this is not a surprise. But it also shouldn't be a surprise That fans will again avoid OPACY and MASN until the team is ready to try and actually win ball games. 

Mid to small market MLB team GM's have concluded that the best way to build a team is to tank for 4-6 years, and they may well be right. But fans are not obligated to financially support the team during those 4-6 years. 

[Jammer7]

I get the reasoning given by Elias, and the only one I disagree with is Bradish. There is always more to the story. Mike Elias’ abundance-of-caution approach has not changed, however annoying it is to all of us. I no longer will give Elias the benefit of the doubt, however. This is the year he needs to take the training wheels off the prospects and make some moves to build an actual major league roster. 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Orioles0615 said:

BS.  Hall I understand, Bradish and Diaz is just prioritizing losing. Even if Hall stays healthy and pitches well he probably still won't be up this year even though he should be up by June. 

 

Yes I am growing very impatient 

Bradish still needs work on his command and in case you didn't notice allowed four base runners and needed 52 pitches to get through 2 IP. So while I would have been fine seeing him piggybacked at the major league level to start the year, I'm ok if they want to work on something with him still. At 25 years old he may be what he's going to be though so I do think we'll see him sooner than later if he pitches well to start the year.

As for Diaz, lol. The guy slashed .161/.233/.265/.498 last year in AAA with 18 BBs and 82 Ks' in 253 PAs but you think Elias wants to lose by sending him down due his 19 spring training PAs? 

Hall is another that very well may be up before the year is out but they are clearly going to monitor his work load and it's easier to just give him 3 inning starts in AA for a bit until they can build him up. We all see how special he can be but he's going to take a little time.

[wildcard]

7 minutes ago, osfan83 said:

I agree, this is not a surprise. But it also shouldn't be a surprise That fans will again avoid OPACY and MASN until the team is ready to try and actually win ball games. 

Mid to small market MLB team GM's have concluded that the best way to build a team is to tank for 4-6 years, and they may well be right. But fans are not obligated to financially support the team during those 4-6 years. 

Fans will come to see Adley, Grayson and DL.   Heck I went to Hagerstown to see Grayson.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

By the way, I’m not too fussed about who makes the Opening Day roster.  There’s very little time to evaluate players this spring.   Things will shake out over the first two months of the season and some guys will come up and other guys will be sent down or released.   If a guy like Bradish has a good start in AAA we could see him at any time.   I’m far more interested in where things stand on June 1 than April 8.   

I'm not too concerned over the Bradish thing. My opinion is if he pitches well, we're going to see a lot of him in Baltimore in 2023. 

[jabba72]

Quote

“All three of those guys, they’re kind of unanimously our top three pitching prospects,” Elias said. “All three of them haven’t had the major league camp experience that they should have had between last year with the delayed minor league camp, the shutdown in 2020 and then this year’s abbreviated major league camp. It’s been more of a cameo with these guys, so I think it makes it all the more necessary that they get lengthened out properly, they get some work in.

“We have very high hopes for them, we have a lot of plans around them, we don’t want to screw them up and screw up their health by rushing them out and having them not properly built up and stretched out and being able to hold their velo late in the games.”

This was in Roch's blog this morning, a few other Elias quotes are there. 

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2022/03/latest-cuts-curtail-some-camp-curiosities-and-keep-with-the-plan.html

[deward]

1 hour ago, osfan83 said:

I prioritize reading how the young players are developing over watching the MLB team either live or on TV. When the MLB team's wins become an priority for the organization, watching them will become a priority for me.  

Pretty much where I'm at. The major league product has been unwatchable the last 3-4 years. I just check the box score to see if anything interesting happened and then watch the highlights. I would have laughed at you 30 years ago if you had told me this is where I would be at now in my Orioles fandom, but it is what it is.

[Sports Guy]

42 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think we need to separate (1) being more competitive by acquiring free agents or trading for veteran players, versus (2) being more competitive by bringing up talent to the majors.    The first has significant, immediate financial cost.   The second doesn’t have much financial cost except in maybe a few cases.   I believe at this point the O’s are going to bring guys up when they believe that’s the best thing for their development and the team’s performance.   Those things can be judgment calls, and so a fan’s opinion of when someone is ready may be different from the team’s opinion.   But it is in the team’s interests to have the players become as good as they can be, and I believe that is their priority here.  

They can become good at the ML level.

They are doing this to save money and service time later.  You are fooling yourself if you think it’s more than that.

[glenn__davis]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Seems like you might be annoyed.    He may not be at Bowie long but he could certainly see some time there.

Oh I'm fully prepared to be annoyed.  I just keep holding out hope that he'll come to his senses there.

Dominates High-A in 2019 and 3 years later still starting in AA.  Ridiculous.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, osfan83 said:

I agree, this is not a surprise. But it also shouldn't be a surprise That fans will again avoid OPACY and MASN until the team is ready to try and actually win ball games. 

Mid to small market MLB team GM's have concluded that the best way to build a team is to tank for 4-6 years, and they may well be right. But fans are not obligated to financially support the team during those 4-6 years. 

Nor should they.  I wasn't advocating any fans to support this team or others who are in a similar boat.

I think mid to small market MLB teams have it wrong.  Tanking makes sense if you're in the NFL or NBA.  In the NFL, you get a top 5 pick, get a great quarterback and you're set for 10+ years.  Your team will most likely be competitive if you have that position locked down.  The NBA is similar, you get a top 10 player and one or two complimentary pieces and you're in the hunt.

Baseball isn't designed to work that way, witness the Angels and Mike Trout.  They have the best player in the game and never sniff the playoffs.

Mid to small market teams should be focused on competing in the South American markets.  Pinning hopes on the draft is too much of a crapshoot in MLB.  It's weird that they think tanking is the only way.  

[vab]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Agreed.  

Again, I refuse to get mad at water for being wet. 

That said, I will say that I think Elias is pretty stupid to put all his eggs in one basket.  His plan assumes that a lot of these guys are going to contribute positively before spending any money.  That, IMO, is hubris.  Once again, I'm not mad at him for doing what he saying he'll do...I just happen to disagree with the refusal to spend and have good players on the roster once these guys come up.

But this is the year, no more excuses.  These guys do have to come up this year or it's a complete waste.  

 

I don't think it's hubris. It's just - 1) saving money and 2) keeping that 1st round pick high. They have just come to the conclusion that spending money to win 70-75 games vs doing what they're doing now and winning 55 is just not worth it. I have to agree. 

[osfan83]

12 minutes ago, vab said:

I don't think it's hubris. It's just - 1) saving money and 2) keeping that 1st round pick high. They have just come to the conclusion that spending money to win 70-75 games vs doing what they're doing now and winning 55 is just not worth it. I have to agree. 

Another way to look at it: Keeping more money in the owners pocket is worth more than the joy of 20-25 more wins for the fans.

Unfortunately this has turned into an all or nothing pursuit. Don't get me wrong, I want to see the O's in the WS again in the worst way. But the season is long, and a 75 win team keeps your interest in the dog days of summer especially in a league with more wild card slots. A 55 win team loses fan interest around Memorial Day. 

[Moose Milligan]

22 minutes ago, vab said:

I don't think it's hubris. It's just - 1) saving money and 2) keeping that 1st round pick high. They have just come to the conclusion that spending money to win 70-75 games vs doing what they're doing now and winning 55 is just not worth it. I have to agree. 

It absolutely is hubris. He’s essentially saying, “these guys I’m selecting are going to be great and our development system is so strong that we will be able to build a competitive club completely on our own.  I can get this organization to 75-81 wins without spending a meaningful dime in free agency.”

 

Alright, Harvard guy.  Let’s see it happen.