Tanner Scott and Cole Sulser traded to Marlins

[BohKnowsBmore]

50 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not sure why you think it was specifically this move that elicited the response.

Could have been literally any other move Elias made since the season ended.

Because of the words "right now" on the day after this move. Sure it could have meant more broadly, but then that would be quite silly/pointless to bring in as very the first comment/question responded to in a FG chat, which ostensibly has numerous others sitting in the queue. 

[Sports Guy]

59 minutes ago, Pickles said:

This idea that the O's/Elias just decided to NOT win games is profoundly stupid and childish and shows a deep misunderstanding of the actual situation facing the franchise.

I was going to post a Baseball Prospectus article outlining the O's upcoming season, but it was basically a whinefest about how it's "gross" they aren't "trying to win."  This was, of course, preceded by legitimate praise for bringing in Odor to "shore up" second base.

Shallow morons with no appreciation of the reality of the world parroting what they read other shallow morons tweet on twitter.

The modern American press, ladies and gentleman.

Well, that is what they did.  There may have been more nuance to it than that but they have publicly stated that winning isn’t the goal.  They aren’t trying to win games. 
 

That is obvious.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Because of the words "right now" on the day after this move. Sure it could have meant more broadly, but then that would be quite silly/pointless to bring in as very the first comment/question responded to in a FG chat, which ostensibly has numerous others sitting in the queue. 

Eh it was poster 171 that said it.  (S)he might have been speaking generally since it isn't a daily chat.

I didn't interpret the comment that way.

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Well, that is what they did.  There may have been more nuance to it than that but they have publicly stated that winning isn’t the goal.  They aren’t trying to win games. 
 

That is obvious.

Not prioritizing wins at the ML level because you are hopelessly behind your competitors and allocating assets to other aspects of the organization isn't making the conscious decision to lose games.

When the Stros did it the baseball media praised them for it.  Ditto for the Cubs.

Now the baseball media sings a different tune, because the narrative has changed.

Not the reality.

Just the narrative.

Typical.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Not prioritizing wins at the ML level because you are hopelessly behind your competitors and allocating assets to other aspects of the organization isn't making the conscious decision to lose games.

When the Stros did it the baseball media praised them for it.  Ditto for the Cubs.

Now the baseball media sings a different tune, because the narrative has changed.

Not the reality.

Just the narrative.

Typical.

The roster they put out for most of last year and the players they used was absolutely a total tank job..just as the previous few years.

When you are tanking, you are actively trying to lose games. That’s not really up for debate.

The debate is, are they smart by doing it.  But there is no debate what the intention is and I have no idea why people want to fight back on it.  Again, Elias himself is admitting to not trying to win.  He is publicly stating, wins don’t matter right now.

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

The roster they put out for most of last year and the players they used was absolutely a total tank job..just as the previous few years.

When you are tanking, you are actively trying to lose games. That’s not really up for debate.

The debate is, are they smart by doing it.  But there is no debate what the intention is and I have no idea why people want to fight back on it.  Again, Elias himself is admitting to not trying to win.  He is publicly stating, wins don’t matter right now.

So you think the Orioles players and field manager are actively trying to lose games?

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, Pickles said:

So you think the Orioles players and field manager are actively trying to lose games?

No not the players or Hyde but that’s irrelevant.  They can only win to the level that their talent allows.

And ownership and the FO isn’t giving them the talent needed to win and they certainly could do that if they wanted to while also doing everything they should be doing for the long term good of the franchise.  It’s not an either/or situation especially starting with the 2022 season.

[NCRaven]

For better or worse, I don’t think Elias sees value in trying to win 75 games now.

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

For better or worse, I don’t think Elias sees value in trying to win 75 games now.

Or 70.

Or 65.

[Sports Guy]

26 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

For better or worse, I don’t think Elias sees value in trying to win 75 games now.

I dont think he has a say in it.

[NCRaven]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I dont think he has a say in it.

I think he laid out his plan to ownership when he was hired and they were all in agreement.  If he made an argument to sign a player, I think ownership would listen.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, NCRaven said:

I think he laid out his plan to ownership when he was hired and they were all in agreement.  If he made an argument to sign a player, I think ownership would listen.

Do you think that ownership could have possibly had anything happen that might have changed that agreement?

[Sports Guy]

25 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I think he laid out his plan to ownership when he was hired and they were all in agreement.  If he made an argument to sign a player, I think ownership would listen.

I’m sure he did too…and ownership is more than fine to be cheap.

What we don’t know is if he is still ok with losing on purpose 4 years in.  I think if ownership said, you can spend 80M this year, he would have gladly done it and added pieces that he felt made sense.

[NCRaven]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think that ownership could have possibly had anything happen that might have changed that agreement?

No idea.  If they suddenly won their court case with the Nats, that would change things, but I don't see it happening.  If Peter Angelos passes away, that will change things in some ways, I'm sure.  But in the recent past, I'm not aware of anything that would cause Elias or ownership to make a sudden shift.  

The next baseball waypoint, so to speak, for me is the arrival of the first wave of major prospects, i.e. Rutschman, Rodriquez, DL Hall and Stowers.  Some success with those players, building on Mountcastle, Mullins, Means and possibly Wells would be the first big step toward changing the way we've operated over the past three seasons.  If they do well, I would expect more willingness to actually spend money augmenting the homegrown talent in a more meaningful way than the Matt Harveys and Jordan Lyles of the baseball world.

[NCRaven]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m sure he did too…and ownership is more than fine to be cheap.

What we don’t know is if he is still ok with losing on purpose 4 years in.  I think if ownership said, you can spend 80M this year, he would have gladly done it and added pieces that he felt made sense.

You may be right.  But, per my response to Corn, above, I'm not sure that Elias thinks this is the right time to spend $80 million.  If Rutschman, Rodriguez and Hall perform the way we expect top 50 prospects to perform, he may decide 2023 is the time to begin spending.  If they don't (over the long term, not an early short sample period), we're doomed anyway.