Felix Bautista 2022

[Moose Milligan]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’d forgotten it was the strike year.  I guess the writers who voted on it kind of mailed it in.  But 33 saves is at least a bit more impressive when you realize they only played 112 games.  That’s the equivalent of about 48 saves over a full 162 game season. 

I also feel that a 30 save year was something still relatively special back then.  I also forgot it was the strike year, too.

I liked watching Lee Smith take his sweet time walking in from the bullpen though, that was fun.  I remember one time they cut to commercial and came back, he was just past second base, almost there.

[MurphDogg]

49 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

To be fair to the Cy Young voters, 5th place was 1% of the vote, so probably one guy threw him on the ballot.  To be very harsh to the MVP voters he finished ahead of Mike Mussina who had a lower ERA in five times as many innings.  Was in a virtual tie with Wade Boggs (.433 OBP), Will Clark (.932 OPS), and Rafael Palmeiro (.942 OPS). For 38 pretty good innings where he allowed runs in six of his last nine appearances and blew five saves.

Yeah, according to Baseball Reference he got a single Cy Young vote point, meaning that a single voter selected him in third place over two of David Cone, Jimmy Key, Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina, who were the only other players to receive votes.

With MVP votes, voters got 10 votes instead of 3 which leads to increased wackiness and it wasn't that rare that a vote or two would go to a player that had a downright lousy season. An example of this was in 1992 when a sub-replacement level George Bell got an MVP vote off of a .255/.294/.418 season thanks to his finishing 4th in the league with 112 RBI.

Pedro Guerrero's MVP vote in a sub-replacement level 1990 season was probably worse, in that he couldn't even point to an outlier RBI total, my best guess is that it was a carryover from Guerrero having finished 3rd in the MVP vote in 1989, a season where Guerrero was better than he was in 1990, but probably not one of the top 100 players in the National League.

Edited September 19, 2022 by MurphDogg

[btdart20]

56 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I also feel that a 30 save year was something still relatively special back then.  I also forgot it was the strike year, too.

I liked watching Lee Smith take his sweet time walking in from the bullpen though, that was fun.  I remember one time they cut to commercial and came back, he was just past second base, almost there.

Haha!  True!  Dude had bad knees and walked 20 years older than he really was. 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I’d forgotten it was the strike year.  I guess the writers who voted on it kind of mailed it in.  But 33 saves is at least a bit more impressive when you realize they only played 112 games.  That’s the equivalent of about 48 saves over a full 162 game season. 

The way he was pitching right before the strike he might not have been the closer by October if the season had gone on.  Much less made it to 48 saves.  From June 15th-on he only pitched in 15 games and had a 6.28 ERA.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I also feel that a 30 save year was something still relatively special back then.  I also forgot it was the strike year, too.

From 1989-93 there were 24 different pitchers who had 30+ saves in a season, including Eck (five times) and Smith, Tom Henke, Rick Aguliera, and Jeff Russell (four times each).

The College of Southern Maryland's* own Steve Farr had a 30-save season, so they were giving them out with boxes of Cracker Jacks.

*That's what bb-ref says, at the time it was still Charles County Community College.

[DrungoHazewood]

57 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Yeah, according to Baseball Reference he got a single Cy Young vote point, meaning that a single voter selected him in third place over two of David Cone, Jimmy Key, Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina, who were the only other players to receive votes.

With MVP votes, voters got 10 votes instead of 3 which leads to increased wackiness and it wasn't that rare that a vote or two would go to a player that had a downright lousy season. An example of this was in 1992 when a sub-replacement level George Bell got an MVP vote off of a .255/.294/.418 season thanks to his finishing 4th in the league with 112 RBI.

Pedro Guerrero's MVP vote in a sub-replacement level 1990 season was probably worse, in that he couldn't even point to an outlier RBI total, my best guess is that it was a carryover from Guerrero having finished 3rd in the MVP vote in 1989, a season where Guerrero was better than he was in 1990, but probably not one of the top 100 players in the National League.

I bet you could come up with some truly mind-bending MVP votes the farther back in time you go.  Roger Peckinpaugh won the award in '25 as a 34-year-old shortstop who only played 126 games and OPS'd .746 with four homers. Bobby Richardson had an 8-win career where he received MVP votes in six different seasons. In '57 the Phils' Granny Hamner (who I think pinch hit a bunch) got three votes in a year where he was -1.3 WAR.

In '55 the Senators' Jose Valdveiso got a vote in a season where he OPS'd .594 in 94 games. In '52 the Dodgers' Billy Cox got eight votes for OPSing .639 in 116 games.  The Browns' Ken Wood got two votes in '50 for being 2.1 wins below replacement, and the Senators' Sam Dente got a vote the same year for OPSing .585 with two homers and one steal in 155 games.

[Moose Milligan]

31 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

From 1989-93 there were 24 different pitchers who had 30+ saves in a season, including Eck (five times) and Smith, Tom Henke, Rick Aguliera, and Jeff Russell (four times each).

The College of Southern Maryland's* own Steve Farr had a 30-save season, so they were giving them out with boxes of Cracker Jacks.

*That's what bb-ref says, at the time it was still Charles County Community College.

Hey, you know what, Drungo?  For 8-12 year old Moose Milligan, 30 saves felt like a big deal.   

Can I just have this?  Why do you gotta ruin everything?  CAN I HAVE THIS

[Jagwar]

6 hours ago, Frobby said:

Yeah, I figured.  I was just pointing out how good Bautista has been.  The fact that he wasn’t our closer until Lopez got traded kind of obscures what a good season he’s having.  

And Bautista is so chill out there. He's not scowling at the hitter, he doesn't fist pump or scream. He just pumps 100 mph fastballs with nasty offspeed, does his job and then fistbumps (or thumb-bumps) Adley. 

I'm excited that we have him for another 5 seasons. Now, if Elias can just construct a team that regularly gets him the ball in the 9th with a lead...

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Stay angry Yankees fans.  Hope Bautista's knee is ok. 

 

[Moshagge3]

They should boo Kiner-Falefa for stealing second. If he's still on first Judge gets pitched to.

[OriolesMagic83]

On 9/19/2022 at 4:45 PM, DrungoHazewood said:

I bet you could come up with some truly mind-bending MVP votes the farther back in time you go.  Roger Peckinpaugh won the award in '25 as a 34-year-old shortstop who only played 126 games and OPS'd .746 with four homers. Bobby Richardson had an 8-win career where he received MVP votes in six different seasons. In '57 the Phils' Granny Hamner (who I think pinch hit a bunch) got three votes in a year where he was -1.3 WAR.

In '55 the Senators' Jose Valdveiso got a vote in a season where he OPS'd .594 in 94 games. In '52 the Dodgers' Billy Cox got eight votes for OPSing .639 in 116 games.  The Browns' Ken Wood got two votes in '50 for being 2.1 wins below replacement, and the Senators' Sam Dente got a vote the same year for OPSing .585 with two homers and one steal in 155 games.

100 years ago, if the O's made the playoffs (0bviously would have been the Browns), I could see someone like Odor getting MVP votes for all the big hits he has had plus his veteranosity and leadership.  Mateo might win it if no one was having a Judge type year.

[Jagwar]

7 hours ago, Moshagge3 said:

They should boo Kiner-Falefa for stealing second. If he's still on first Judge gets pitched to.

I'm not sure about that. You can still pitch around the most dangerous hitter in the league even if the runner is on first instead of second. I know I would have done so. 

[Number5]

6 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

100 years ago, if the O's made the playoffs (0bviously would have been the Browns), I could see someone like Odor getting MVP votes for all the big hits he has had plus his veteranosity and leadership.  Mateo might win it if no one was having a Judge type year.

Very doubtful, with the way batting average was valued back then.

[DrungoHazewood]

9 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

100 years ago, if the O's made the playoffs (0bviously would have been the Browns), I could see someone like Odor getting MVP votes for all the big hits he has had plus his veteranosity and leadership.  Mateo might win it if no one was having a Judge type year.

I know what you mean, and you may be right.  Although Odor may be going too far.  If you look at the real 1922 AL MVP voting nobody who hit anything like Odor finished in the top 20.  George Cutshaw got a vote or two and finished 26th for being a 2B with a .639 OPS.

But to digress... in 1922 the Orioles were the Orioles. They won the International League pennant going 115-52, finishing 10 games ahead of Rochester for their 4th straight title.  And they beat the AA champions St. Paul in the
Little World Series.

The IL didn't give out an MVP award until 10 years later, but if they had in '22 it probably would have gone to Jack Bentley.  He hit .351, led the league in homers with 22, and went 13-2 with a 1.73 ERA in 16 games on the mound.  After the season owner Jack Dunn finally relented and sold Bentley to the Giants for $72,500, or the equivalent of about $1.2M today.  Interestingly, the Giants used him primarily as a pitcher.

The Orioles were obviously the best team in the league and Bentley was pretty clearly the best player on team, although SS Joe Boley hit .343 and slugged .509.  Lefty Grove went 18-8 but was 6th on the team in innings, it would take him a few more years to become the player Dunn would sell to Connie Mack for $100k.

It's pretty likely that you could have dropped the '19-25 Orioles into the American League and they'd have been an average team. 

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, Number5 said:

Very doubtful, with the way batting average was valued back then.

Maybe if he'd been a catcher, or even better a player-manager-catcher.  Some of the early MVP votes had some head scratchers, where they clearly were giving huge credit for field leadership of a player-manager and/or catcher. 

Johnny Bassler finished 6th, 7th, and 5th in the AL MVP voting from '22-24 despite never playing more than 135 games, combining for one homer in the three years, and in '22 had just 14 doubles and no triples.  But he was a catcher... He and fellow catcher Ray Schalk (.750 OPS, four homers) got way more votes than Harry Heilmann, who hit .356/.432/.598.