07/26/22 Roster Moves: Terrin Vavra is called up from Norfolk (MLB debut) and Arauz to the IL

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

Odor is starting over him again tonight.  Incredibly frustrating.

Hyde definitely favors veterans over rookies. He barely played Stowers starting McKenna over him and now he refuses to bench Odor over Vavra. For all the good things he'd done, it's going to get a little worrisome if he keeps not playing prospects that get called up over players who obviously are not the best player available. 

 

[RVAOsFan]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Hyde definitely favors veterans over rookies. He barely played Stowers starting McKenna over him and now he refuses to bench Odor over Vavra. For all the good things he'd done, it's going to get a little worrisome if he keeps not playing prospects that get called up over players who obviously are not the best player available. 

 

Do you think Hyde is actually making that call though? I am surprised Elias isn't pushing him to start these younger guys so he can evaluate them.  I know we are playing better than expected but this is the year to evaluate some of these younger guys when we get a chance like this.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Hyde definitely favors veterans over rookies. He barely played Stowers starting McKenna over him and now he refuses to bench Odor over Vavra. For all the good things he'd done, it's going to get a little worrisome if he keeps not playing prospects that get called up over players who obviously are not the best player available. 

 

Meh.   Vavra is up because Arauz is hurt, and he’s probably not going to play much more than Arauz would have, unless he lights the world on fire the first few times he plays.   Arauz started 8 of 24 games while he was with the team, and only played 2B in one of those games.   He would have played less if Urias had been healthy the whole time he was up.  

[Tony-OH]

22 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

Do you think Hyde is actually making that call though? I am surprised Elias isn't pushing him to start these younger guys so he can evaluate them.  I know we are playing better than expected but this is the year to evaluate some of these younger guys when we get a chance like this.

I really don't know who makes the lineup calls. When asked in the past it was a "group" thing. But i do know any computer program or process that spits out Odor as a better fit at 2B than Vavra is probably flawwed. Odor is a rWAR -0.1 player so even if Vavra is replacement level it will be an upgrade.

It's just disappointing because I want to really get behind Hyde but we're starting to see a trend with young players this year.

[Brooks The Great]

23 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

Yup another day with Odor at 2B.

Odor batting in front of Urias is a travesty. Bad management.

[Tony-OH]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Meh.   Vavra is up because Arauz is hurt, and he’s probably not going to play much more than Arauz would have, unless he lights the world on fire the first few times he plays.   Arauz started 8 of 24 games while he was with the team, and only played 2B in one of those games.   He would have played less if Urias had been healthy the whole time he was up.  

If that's true, then they should have brought up Martin. You don't bring up a legitimate prospect and sit him on the bench in favor of guys who are below replacement level like Odor. 

This is just like what Hyde did to Stowers. Why bring prospects up if you aren't going to play them? Martin is a the kind of player you bring up to ride the bench, not Vavra, at least not yet.

I didn't even like the answer Hyde had when asked about CF for Vavra. He said that Hays and more problematic Mckenna would be ahead of him? Why?

Why not take a look at his left-handed bat?

The only reason I'm not hammering Hyde is because I'm not sure he makes the lineup cards out. 

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Brooks The Great said:

Odor batting in front of Urias is a travesty. Bad management.

It's awful. And I really like Hyde, but this is indefensible. It really comes off as cowardly to stick with your veteran Odor to this degree. Have some balls and play the more talented batter. And put some ****ing respect on Urias' name for crying out loud. This is a bush league lineup card. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by interloper

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If that's true, then they should have brought up Martin. You don't bring up a legitimate prospect and sit him on the bench in favor of guys who are below replacement level like Odor. 

This is just like what Hyde did to Stowers. Why bring prospects up if you aren't going to play them? Martin is a the kind of player you bring up to ride the bench, not Vavra, at least not yet.

I didn't even like the answer Hyde had when asked about CF for Vavra. He said that Hays and more problematic Mckenna would be ahead of him? Why?

Why not take a look at his left-handed bat?

The only reason I'm not hammering Hyde is because I'm not sure he makes the lineup cards out. 

At least with Stowers you knew ahead of time he was probably only going to be up for that series in Toronto. This is like... what are doing here? I do think Hyde makes the lineup cards because what benefit would Elias see in playing Odor over Vavra? Elias gives Hyde a little too much leeway if you ask me. Put the foot down and tell him he has to play the prospects. The Orioles are not going to make the playoffs. 

[ScGO's]

Is it possible that they are trying to "showcase" Odor for a trade partner? I couldn't imagine who would really want him.  Maybe a LH Power bench bat? Are there any hidden analytics that show he's been better than his stat line?

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 

This is just like what Hyde did to Stowers. Why bring prospects up if you aren't going to play them? Martin is a the kind of player you bring up to ride the bench, not Vavra, at least not yet.

Stowers started two of the four games he was on the team.   He wasn’t brought up for the long term, he was plugging a hole.   He went 1 for 7 in the two games, and the Orioles lost both the games he started, and won the two he didn’t.   I’m absolutely fine with how they used him.  

Vavra will get some looks but he’s not going to play more than Arauz or Martin did, especially in the beginning.  Don’t get me wrong, I’d be happy if he played every day.   But I never expected that was going to happen, so I’m not disappointed that it isn’t.  
 

[RVAOsFan]

1 minute ago, ScGO's said:

Is it possible that they are trying to "showcase" Odor for a trade partner? I couldn't imagine who would really want him.  Maybe a LH Power bench bat? Are there any hidden analytics that show he's been better than his stat line?

This crossed my mind, but why would someone need to see anymore of him? If you had a potential deal wouldn't it make more sense to keep him on the bench and healthy until the deal went through?

[wildcard]

Geehs!!!  The O's are 14-6 in July.  They just took the last two games from the Rays who are ahead of them in the standings.   They did that with the team that has been here and played together for a while.    Vavra's value right now is a left-handed bat off the bench and someone that can rest Odor for a game or two.

Many may not like it but Odor is an integrate part of the winning in July.   He plays well with Urias and Mateo.  Turns the double play well and gets an important hit every now and then.    

Vavra time will come.  Maybe because of injury to a player or maybe next season but right now he is filling a backup role.   He is learned from those around him what it means to be a major leaguer.  I know he has some exposure to  MLB from his dad but there is nothing like being there himself.  I am sure he is not complaining about where he is.

 

[jabba72]

2 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Is it possible that they are trying to "showcase" Odor for a trade partner? I couldn't imagine who would really want him.  Maybe a LH Power bench bat? Are there any hidden analytics that show he's been better than his stat line?

To me that seems very unlikely. Odor stats are what they are. Pretty bad.  I think its just bad judgement on Hyde's part to stick with Odor when a better option is now available. 

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, jabba72 said:

To me that seems very unlikely. Odor stats are what they are. Pretty bad.  I think its just bad judgement on Hyde's part to stick with Odor when a better option is now available. 

We don't know that Vavra is a better option over Odor.   He is a rookie fresh off the farm.  He has not played with Urias and Mateo.   He will have to learn their tendencies and the shifts.   His arm is rated average, so does that work in turning the double plays which is one of the keys to the O's success this year.

Just looking a batting averages does not tell the whole story.

[Frobby]

32 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I really don't know who makes the lineup calls. When asked in the past it was a "group" thing. But i do know any computer program or process that spits out Odor as a better fit at 2B than Vavra is probably flawwed. Odor is a rWAR -0.1 player so even if Vavra is replacement level it will be an upgrade.

It's just disappointing because I want to really get behind Hyde but we're starting to see a trend with young players this year.

I’d say it’s the opposite.   I doubt some computer is saying Odor is better than Vavra.   It’s more like the O’s don’t want to play a brand-new rookie over a well-respected veteran who is a key part of the clubhouse chemistry during a streak when the team has been playing extremely well, even if the stats say that Odor’s on the field play is not the reason the team has been winning.   If the team was playing .400 baseball in July you’d probably see it handled differently.