Henderson coming up this week?

[Bahama O's Fan]

So what is the deadline to be on the 26 man to be playoff eligible?

[emmett16]

3 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

So what is the deadline to be on the 26 man to be playoff eligible?

8/31

[Alasdaire]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Except, once again, we don't know Elias' motivation.

You, friend, are assuming his motivation, based on imperfect information.

You already mapped out the possible reasons for keeping Gunnar down. That he doesn't help this team win, that his clock is being manipulated, or that he needs to develop more in the minors. I addressed all three by saying I don't think it's plausible it's either of the first two. I admit I'm assuming it's the third.

 

Quote

And if you didn't realize how weak your argument was, you wouldn't have invoked GM infallibility.

The logical fallacy you're suggesting I'm making is appeal to authority. But that's not what I'm doing. I'm not saying that all other things equal and without the ability to resolve a disagreement, we should default to the person in a position of power because of their supposed expertise. I'm saying that one party--not us--has access to more pertinent information. That is why we should default to them, not because they hold a title.

Quote

 

Do you never question a decision that Hyde makes during a game?

The O's surely had more information than we did when they signed Davis, did those of us that questioned that move just get lucky?

Do you assume that all your bosses at all your various jobs over the years were always right since they had more information?  Are our elected leaders always right because they have more information?

 

Questions like whether Chris Davis is worth X amount of $ allow for us to be on a similar footing as the front office. We can judge whether a major league player is good almost as well as the front office can given our access to statistics about the player and statistics of comparable players and their contract history.

Whether Gunnar Henderson would develop better in Norfolk or Baltimore isn't the same thing. We don't know what the goals they set for Gunnar are, what he's really working on, or whether the coaches in Baltimore have the same time/experience to work on a player versus a coach in Norfolk. So yes, in the absence of us knowing those things, and as to this specific question of what's best for Gunnar's development, I would default to the people who do know them.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Alasdaire said:

You already mapped out the possible reasons for keeping Gunnar down. That he doesn't help this team win, that his clock is being manipulated, or that he needs to develop more in the minors. I addressed all three by saying I don't think it's plausible it's either of the first two. I admit I'm assuming it's the third.

 

The logical fallacy you're suggesting I'm making is appeal to authority. But that's not what I'm doing. I'm not saying that all other things equal and without the ability to resolve a disagreement, we should default to the person in a position of power because of their supposed expertise. I'm saying that one party--not us--has access to more pertinent information. That is why we should default to them, not because they hold a title.

Questions like whether Chris Davis is worth X amount of $ allow for us to be on a similar footing as the front office. We can judge whether a major league player is good almost as well as the front office can given our access to statistics about the player and statistics of comparable players and their contract history.

Whether Gunnar Henderson would develop better in Norfolk or Baltimore isn't the same thing. We don't know what the goals they set for Gunnar are, what he's really working on, or whether the coaches in Baltimore have the same time/experience to work on a player versus a coach in Norfolk. So yes, in the absence of us knowing those things, and as to this specific question of what's best for Gunnar's development, I would default to the people who do know them.

I mapped out some possible reasons.  I asked others to help add to the list.  I'm not claiming its exhaustive.

Yes I know the term, I didn't want to come off as a pseudo-intellectional by using it.  And that's exactly what you are doing.

We weren't on similar footing as the FO when it came to Davis.  They had tons of data that we didn't have, just like Elias does.  It isn't as if we have no data on Gunnar.  It's not like we can't see what teams like the Braves are doing.

Either we can question folks or we can't.  If we can't Tony might as well close up shop.

GMs make mistakes.  What Elias is doing may or not be the best move going forward for the O's.

I as a fan have the right to question him and the team's motivations.

 

 

[Moose Milligan]

Guess Gunnar wasn’t coming up this past week after all. 

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Guess Gunnar wasn’t coming up this past week after all. 

He’s definitely coming up one week someday.  Pretty sure.  Not that I have sources or heard rumors but I have a feeling.

Edited August 29, 2022 by RZNJ

[sevastras]

24 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Except, once again, we don't know Elias' motivation.

You, friend, are assuming his motivation, based on imperfect information.

And if you didn't realize how weak your argument was, you wouldn't have invoked GM infallibility.

Do you never question a decision that Hyde makes during a game?

The O's surely had more information than we did when they signed Davis, did those of us that questioned that move just get lucky?

Do you assume that all your bosses at all your various jobs over the years were always right since they had more information?  Are our elected leaders always right because they have more information?

 

 

To be fair, I wanted to extend Cruz to a 4 year deal and not extend Davis. So in hind sight, I am always right. 
I don’t see a logical reason that Gunnar isn’t up other than they don’t think they can get him in every day which is probably not true. I would put him at 3rd and urias at 2nd and die on that decision for the remainder of the season. No one would fault you for it within reason because if he struggles, he is going to bat and defend as well or better than Odor. Odor can pinch hit and be a cheerleader the rest of the year.

If he isn’t called up tomorrow, I would be really curious what the actual thinking is and not some bs excuse. 

[eddie83]

37 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

8/31

 

Technically he does not have to be up. Can replace injured player. 

[Alasdaire]

31 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I mapped out some possible reasons.  I asked others to help add to the list.  I'm not claiming its exhaustive.

Yes I know the term, I didn't want to come off as a pseudo-intellectional by using it.  And that's exactly what you are doing.

We weren't on similar footing as the FO when it came to Davis.  They had tons of data that we didn't have, just like Elias does.  It isn't as if we have no data on Gunnar.  It's not like we can't see what teams like the Braves are doing.

Either we can question folks or we can't.  If we can't Tony might as well close up shop.

GMs make mistakes.  What Elias is doing may or not be the best move going forward for the O's.

I as a fan have the right to question him and the team's motivations.

 

 

I think certain things are within the purview of certain people, and this is one of them. Of course we can still question all of it. But there is a place in life for deference/benefit of the doubt, especially when there is a deserving track record.

I would love for them to deem Gunnar ready and we see him this week/month.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Alasdaire said:

I think certain things are within the purview of certain people, and this is one of them. Of course we can still question all of it. But there is a place in life for deference/benefit of the doubt, especially when there is a deserving track record.

I would love for them to deem Gunnar ready and we see him this week/month.

Looks like his plan for Adley backfired and his plan for Grayson doesn't look so hot.  How is the plan working for Hall?

Not sure why you think he deserves deference.

[Alasdaire]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Looks like his plan for Adley backfired and his plan for Grayson doesn't look so hot.  How is the plan working for Hall?

Not sure why you think he deserves deference.

Adley backfired by becoming rookie of the year when they decided he was ready? Hm.

[sevastras]

13 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

Adley backfired by becoming rookie of the year when they decided he was ready? Hm.

Could have called him up end of last year for a month and since he was injured to start the year would have still accumulated a year service time, so yeah back fired because they didn’t call him up and had the unexpected injury. 

[RZNJ]

41 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Looks like his plan for Adley backfired and his plan for Grayson doesn't look so hot.  How is the plan working for Hall?

Not sure why you think he deserves deference.

What was Elias plan for Hall and Rodriguez?   

[Can_of_corn]

19 minutes ago, sevastras said:

Could have called him up end of last year for a month and since he was injured to start the year would have still accumulated a year service time, so yeah back fired because they didn’t call him up and had the unexpected injury. 

Yep.

I still don't know if Elias could have put him on the 40 declared him making the team and then put him on the IL.  I have no idea if the CBA has a provision for that.  If it doesn't they might want to add it.  If a team is willing to start the clock with an injured player I think they should be rewarded.

[Frobby]

46 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Looks like his plan for Adley backfired and his plan for Grayson doesn't look so hot.  How is the plan working for Hall?

Not sure why you think he deserves deference.

Because the team is good and looking dangerous for the next 5-10 years?