Hyde 200 Wins

[DrungoHazewood]

The Orioles tweeted out this today:

I get it, it's nice, it's a big, round number.  And I fully understand that he was brought into an impossible situation with the team completely rebuilding from scratch.  And the COVID year is a significant caveat.

But he has to have the all-time record (okay, since 150+ game schedules became a thing) for longest period of time for a manager to get to 200 wins. I'm trying to think of some other manager who got to 200 wins slower and I'm not pulling any names.  Doc Prothro is kind of a benchmark of managerial futility, but he only was in charge of the Phillies for three years, finishing 138-320.  The early Mets teams were managed by Stengel, who already had all those Yankees and Braves wins under his belt.  The terrible A's teams were well into Connie Mack's career. 

Okay, doing a little research... so Fred Tenney took longer.  Zach Taylor (at least in games, if not calendar days), and Art Fletcher, too.  Maybe a few others who had relative success later on.  Those guys had the advantage of managing in 154-game schedules, so Hyde gets 3-4 wins a year on that.

Interesting, I wouldn't have thought that Hyde has a better winning percentage than Alan Trammell, Derek Shelton, John Russell.  Preston Gomez managed seven years with a winning percentage almost as bad as Hyde's.  Don't know how next year is going to go, but I think Hyde has a good chance to move significantly up the list in a positive way.

[Frobby]

So far as I could tell, Jimmie Wilson was the most games below .500 of any manager in history, at -242.  His winning percentage was .401.   Hyde’s only at .388, but better times are ahead.  

An interesting and perhaps relevant question is what manager who finished his career over .500 had the worst start.     Did any manager ever get to -133 (which is where Hyde was on May 18) and recover to be a .500+ manager?

Hyde was at 145-278 (.343) on May 18, now he’s at 200-315 (.388).   He could win 90 games a year for the next six years and still be below .500.   

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

So far as I could tell, Jimmie Wilson was the most games below .500 of any manager in history, at -242.  His winning percentage was .401.   Hyde’s only at .388, but better times are ahead.  

An interesting and perhaps relevant question is what manager who finished his career over .500 had the worst start.     Did any manager ever get to -133 (which is where Hyde was on May 18) and recover to be a .500+ manager?

Hyde was at 145-278 (.343) on May 18, now he’s at 200-315 (.388).   He could win 90 games a year for the next six years and still be below .500.   

Regardless of his W-L metrics.

He is living the life, most of us can only dream.

For those not good enough to play the game at the big league level, whats the next best thing.

Manage the team, dress up in the uniform and get to be one of them.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

So far as I could tell, Jimmie Wilson was the most games below .500 of any manager in history, at -242.  His winning percentage was .401.   Hyde’s only at .388, but better times are ahead.  

An interesting and perhaps relevant question is what manager who finished his career over .500 had the worst start.     Did any manager ever get to -133 (which is where Hyde was on May 18) and recover to be a .500+ manager?

Hyde was at 145-278 (.343) on May 18, now he’s at 200-315 (.388).   He could win 90 games a year for the next six years and still be below .500.   

I'll have to dig around a bit, but I've already spent too much time digging around this morning and I have some work to do.

Casey Stengel and Joe Torre famously were managers of poor teams before moving on to dynastic Yankee eras. Torre was 286-420 (-134) with the Mets.

Connie Mack was kind of the opposite side of the coin you're talking about.  After 1914 he was 1359-962, or +397.  By 1925 he was -38, having gone 528-963 over those 10 years.  Then 767-452 from '25-32.  Then 1001-1448 the rest of his career.  I think you know this story, but Mack was a manager-owner and really had no resources outside of the team.  So any time they were in danger of losing money he sold off ALL of the players he was so skilled in acquiring and developing.

Edited September 2, 2022 by DrungoHazewood

[Sports Guy]

I saw that tweet and had to laugh.  I don't think that is something I would have advertised.  

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Regardless of his W-L metrics.

He is living the life, most of us can only dream.

For those not good enough to play the game at the big league level, whats the next best thing.

Manage the team, dress up in the uniform and get to be one of them.

 

He’s also paid pretty well by most standards, I’m sure.  I think he’s done a real solid job and I’m glad he’s experiencing some success now.  Hopefully a lot more in the future.

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I'll have to dig around a bit, but I've already spent too much time digging around this morning and I have some work to do.

Casey Stengel and Joe Torre famously were managers of poor teams before moving on to dynastic Yankee eras.

Torre occurred to me.  I didn’t know Stengel had managed teams before the Yankees.  Both of them got below -133.  Torre was -134 with the Mets, Stengel was -161 with the Dodgers and Braves. Funny how managing the Yankees makes everyone a genius.  

Edited September 2, 2022 by Frobby

[survivedc]

39 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Hyde was at 145-278 (.343) on May 18, now he’s at 200-315 (.388).   He could win 90 games a year for the next six years and still be below .500.   

This is pretty incredible. He could have a very good decade all in all and have a very mediocre record.

[Redskins Rick]

49 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He’s also paid pretty well by most standards, I’m sure.  I think he’s done a real solid job and I’m glad he’s experiencing some success now.  Hopefully a lot more in the future.

Good points, and you are right

[DrungoHazewood]

12 minutes ago, survivedc said:

This is pretty incredible. He could have a very good decade all in all and have a very mediocre record.

The distribution is a little skewed.  The '98 Yanks and '01 Mariners are the only teams since they went to 162 games in '61 to win 110.  But 12 teams have lost 110.

35 teams have lost 105, but only 14 have won 105.

And some teams like the O's, Astros, Royals will be over 100 losses for multiple years.  But very, very few have streaks of winning 100+.  The Dodgers have been around since 1884 and this year is probably going to be their first with consecutive 100-win seasons. If not for COVID the O's probably lose 100+ four straight years.

[Redskins Rick]

40 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Torre occurred to me.  I didn’t know Stengel had managed teams before the Yankees.  Both of them got below -133.  Torre was -134 with the Mets, Stengel was -161 with the Dodgers and Braves. Funny how managing the Yankees makes everyone a genius.  

Showater said it best, everybody is going to get fired as a manager, you sit back, and figure out what worked and what didnt work, and you try to do better if you get another manager slot.

Sometimes it takes that 3rd posting, before you it figured out.

Stengel stunk as a manager of the early 60 expansion Mets.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

53 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I didn’t know Stengel had managed teams before the Yankees.

Stengel had about four careers before the Yanks, and of course managed the Mets afterwards.

First, he was a goofball but very, very productive platoon outfielder with Uncle Robbie's Brooklyn teams in the teens and 20s. Almost like a proto-John Lowenstein, but better.  Managed the Toledo Mud Hens in the 20s, then the Dodgers for three years in the 30s, the Braves in the late 30s and early 40s.  Had to go back to the minors and managed in Milwaukee, KC in the AA and then the Oakland Oaks in the PCL.  The last year in Oakland they were 114-74, getting him the Yanks job.

[DrungoHazewood]

Casey was a cool guy circa 1915.

[jabba72]

Interesting stat that Stengel won 7 WS with the Yankees in 12 seasons but only one 100 win team during that span, who won 103 games in 1954, but no WS title.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, jabba72 said:

Interesting stat that Stengel won 7 WS with the Yankees in 12 seasons but only one 100 win team during that span, who won 103 games in 1954, but no WS title.

Much easier to win 100 games with a 162 game season.