John and Georgia Angelos have hired Goldman Sachs to assess the prospects for selling the team

[LookinUp]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I want to see if Elias can take the next step before calling him a great GM.   Okay, he’s gotten the team to being competitive and has an excellent farm system.   Now, can he convert that into a team that’s a legitimate WS contender?   That’s the ultimate test of a great GM.

Also, I see no point in wringing our hands about this when we don’t have even the slightest clue about the terms of Elias’ contract.   His contact could expire next year, or it could have five years to go.   Who knows?

We all want to see that, but we're at a place with where ownership can create a significantly divergent approach. One owner might be happy to go pay $200 million while another wants Noah Denoyer to be in the starting rotation. Even then, playoff success is almost random. I think the measure is getting there with a chance more than actually winning.

[LookinUp]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Four years ago Elias was one of a bunch of potential GMs.  Now he has a track record and would be more in demand. But the truth is MLB teams don't pay GMs anything like they pay top players unless they're really hiding things from the public very well.   If you don't like my naïve explanation you lay out why a typical MLB GM makes half as much as Jordan Lyles.

I'm not advocating the O's pay Elias like a top player. I'm advocating they pay him like the top GM. He's earned that. It's naive to think anything different, IMO. The alternative is letting him go, promoting Sig and hoping he's as good.

It's a reasonable plan, but for a difference of $3 million/year (or whatever the number), I'm keeping the architect in house.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

We all want to see that, but we're at a place with where ownership can create a significantly divergent approach. One owner might be happy to go pay $200 million while another wants Noah Denoyer to be in the starting rotation. Even then, playoff success is almost random. I think the measure is getting there with a chance more than actually winning.

I’m not really speaking about playoff success.  I mean a team that isn’t taking a wild card spot down to the final days of the season.  A 93+ win team that looks capable of doing damage in the postseason, whether or not it happens to have postseason success in a particular season.  

And, I take your point about ownership playing a role.  Elias has said he’ll have significant money to spend, and I believe him.   Do I expect our payroll to be in the top half of MLB next year? No.   But I think he’ll have enough resources to get the job done, if he makes good decisions and we have average luck with injuries.
 

[LookinUp]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m not really speaking about playoff success.  I mean a team that isn’t taking a wild card spot down to the final days of the season.  A 93+ win team that looks capable of doing damage in the postseason, whether or not it happens to have postseason success in a particular season.  

And, I take your point about ownership playing a role.  Elias has said he’ll have significant money to spend, and I believe him.   Do I expect our payroll to be in the top half of MLB next year? No.   But I think he’ll have enough resources to get the job done, if he makes good decisions and we have average luck with injuries.
 

To your point, I think the single question I think Elias hasn't yet answered is whether he's able to develop/acquire pitching that's capable of making a good team a really good or great team. I'm pretty sure we'll get there from the position player perspective, and I like that our pitchers have over performed relative to their previous expectations, but that's the elephant in the room for me.

[hutchead]

55 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

To your point, I think the single question I think Elias hasn't yet answered is whether he's able to develop/acquire pitching that's capable of making a good team a really good or great team. I'm pretty sure we'll get there from the position player perspective, and I like that our pitchers have over performed relative to their previous expectations, but that's the elephant in the room for me.

This is what I said in the very beginning. Although it's two questions for me. Can he sign the right free agents for the right amount? Guys that fit in well in the clubhouse? Guys that fill the roles that need filled? And the other question is can he make the right trades? Does he choose the right guys from his surplus of bats? Can he bring in the right arms? He's done really well in other areas so I feel like he can do well here also but we don't know that yet since he really hasn't been tested yet. If he checks those boxes he would indeed be in a position to demand a premium salary.

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, LookinUp said:

I'm not advocating the O's pay Elias like a top player. I'm advocating they pay him like the top GM. He's earned that. It's naive to think anything different, IMO. The alternative is letting him go, promoting Sig and hoping he's as good.

It's a reasonable plan, but for a difference of $3 million/year (or whatever the number), I'm keeping the architect in house.

He's earned it?  I don't see any new pennants flying.

Shouldn't you at least make the playoffs before you earn a top salary?

Kinda insulting to his peers that have won.

[OriolesMagic83]

46 minutes ago, hutchead said:

This is what I said in the very beginning. Although it's two questions for me. Can he sign the right free agents for the right amount? Guys that fit in well in the clubhouse? Guys that fill the roles that need filled? And the other question is can he make the right trades? Does he choose the right guys from his surplus of bats? Can he bring in the right arms? He's done really well in other areas so I feel like he can do well here also but we don't know that yet since he really hasn't been tested yet. If he checks those boxes he would indeed be in a position to demand a premium salary.

The O's played this game with Machado.  Stay healthy, put up All Star numbers, play Gold Glove defense.  Then you will deserve a long term contract with the Baltimore discount.  I'm sure Machado had moved on long before he left.  The time to act is now before it's obvious Elias is in say the top 5 GMs in baseball.  I think he already is.  Once every question is answered, a team like the Yankees would be happy to pay Elias $10 mill/year.  Every question hasn't been answered w/ Elias, but he is at worst the best GM the O's have had in 25 years.

[RZNJ]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He's earned it?  I don't see any new pennants flying.

Shouldn't you at least make the playoffs before you earn a top salary?

Kinda insulting to his peers that have won.

Maybe.   But if another team was trying to get Elias and I had the choice of topping their offer or replacing Elias I'd easily top that offer.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

The O's played this game with Machado.  Stay healthy, put up All Star numbers, play Gold Glove defense.  Then you will deserve a long term contract with the Baltimore discount.  I'm sure Machado had moved on long before he left.  The time to act is now before it's obvious Elias is in say the top 5 GMs in baseball.  I think he already is.  Once every question is answered, a team like the Yankees would be happy to pay Elias $10 mill/year.  Every question hasn't been answered w/ Elias, but he is at worst the best GM the O's have had in 25 years.

They don't pay Cashman that much.  Not close.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

They don't pay Cashman that much.  Not close.

You're right.  I googled so no source yet.

On December 11, 2017, Cashman signed a 5-year, $25 million contract with the Yankees to keep him as General Manager through 2022.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You're right.  I googled so no source yet.

On December 11, 2017, Cashman signed a 5-year, $25 million contract with the Yankees to keep him as General Manager through 2022.

So he’s a free agent this winter?  I’d imagine the Yankees will want to keep him, though you never know.   

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Maybe.   But if another team was trying to get Elias and I had the choice of topping their offer or replacing Elias I'd easily top that offer.

Well, we certainly wouldn’t want things to get to a point where Elias is fielding other offers. But again, we know nothing about how much he makes, how long his contract runs, or other terms of the deal.  I did note that in a story about the lawsuits it was mentioned that Elias has strong terms in his deal precluding others from interfering with his control of baseball operations.  That was good to see.  

[LookinUp]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

They don't pay Cashman that much.  Not close.

Ok, what would you do?

1 year before his contract is up, do you make an offer? How much?

When his contract is up, do you make an offer? How much?

When his contract is up an another team offers him $5/35 million, do you beat that offer?

[eddie83]

 

[eddie83]