Lyles, Voth, Gallagher and Garcia

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I will take Grayson in the 1st half and Means in the 2nd half for one spot in the rotation.

I don’t want Grayson shut down if he’s pitching well.  I don’t spend too much time thinking about it because there’s too many ways the season could go.  We’ll see what they do.  

[wildcard]

40 minutes ago, vab said:

From everything we heard and seen, Elias really values having a few veterans around who can mentor these youngsters which explains why they kept Odor and Chirinos around. Lyles falls into that category on the pitching side. Besides, they have virtually no payroll. I don't think picking up Lyles for 11M should have any effect on what they can do in trades or free agency. 

Veterans:  Means, Santander, and Gallagher or another experienced backup catcher.

Be glad to see a veteran added that is an upgrade but don't want a veteran just for experience only.

[wildcard]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t want Grayson shut down if he’s pitching well.  I don’t spend too much time thinking about it because there’s too many ways the season could go.  We’ll see what they do.  

Tyler Wells pitched  57 inning in 2021.   There was concern about pitching him more than 90 innings.  He broke at 94 innings.

Grayson pitched 75.2 innings in 2022.  He went down with an lat injury.  Next year pressing him past 106 innings has its risks.  It could happen again.

Edited October 19, 2022 by wildcard

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Tyler Wells pitched  57 inning in 2021.   There was concern about pitching him more than 90 innings.  He broke at 94 innings.

Grayson pitched 75.2 innings in 2022.  He went down with an lat injury.  Next year pressing him past 106 innings has its risks.  It could happen again.

He threw more than that.  He had rehab assignments, side sessions, etc…remember, he would have his rehab start and then go throw more pitches after that.

He should be able to get to 125-130 or so innings next year.

Hall just threw 60 or so more innings in 2022 than he did in 2021 and GRod didnt have an arm issue and is a big guy. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Sports Guy

[btdart20]

8 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

An innings eating 5th starter in Mlb is a good job to have.

For a team to make the playoffs, yes.  Plenty of playoff teams have an innings eater type in the back half of the rotation.  But for a team to maximize their chances of playoff wins, they need a couple of studs.  I think we're at a place where we need to start thinking playoff wins.  We'll need quality innings throughout the whole game.

Phillies vs. Cards

Nola/Wheeler vs. Mikolas/Quintana.  Mikolas had a 3.29 ERA in 2022 (3.70 career) and Quintana had a 2.93 ERA in 2022 (3.75 career).  Even these guys are better than our top 2.  (Means career ERA is 3.81.)  There's an argument that this tandem is the worst of the 2022 playoff teams.

Marines vs. Blue Jays

Castillo/Ray vs. Gausman/Manoah.  Wow...

Padres vs. Mets

Darvish/Musgrove/Snell vs. Scherzer/deGrom/Bassitt.  Wow...  Bassitt as a #3 is solid!

Guardians vs. Rays

Bieber/McKenzie vs. McClanahan/Glasnow.  Tampa went with the just recovering Glasnow in a Hail Mary type of hope is tough.

Padres vs. Dodgers

Clevinger/Darvish/Musgrove/Snell vs. Urias/Kershaw/Gonsolin/Anderson.  These staffs!

Phillies vs. Braves

Nola/Wheeler/Suarez/Syndergaard vs. Wright/Strider/Fried/Morton.  Phillies in 4.  Nola and Wheeler are carrying the staff.  The other two had short starts.  

Astros vs. Mariners

Verlander/Valdez/McCullers vs. Castillo/Gilbert/Kirby.  Verlander was the weak link!  These two rotations look like they're built to compete for the next few years.

Yankees vs. Guardians

Cole/Cortes/Severino vs. Quantrill/Bieber/McKenzie/Civale.  Yankees gave Cole and Cortes 2 starts in this 5-game series.  Quantrill got 2 for the Guardians.  Tough for the Guardians to overcome.

 

42 minutes ago, vab said:

From everything we heard and seen, Elias really values having a few veterans around who can mentor these youngsters which explains why they kept Odor and Chirinos around. Lyles falls into that category on the pitching side. Besides, they have virtually no payroll. I don't think picking up Lyles for 11M should have any effect on what they can do in trades or free agency. 

Elias has also said decisions will look different going forward.  I have to assume that (in part) means no more place holders like Odor as a starting 2B (who knows with the back-up C because that's a little more niche).  Does Lyles fall into that category?  I'm not completely sure but I think so.  I think Elias is looking for quality innings vs. getting through the innings without looking silly.  Lyles could still have a place but I think the $ and IPs can easily go to other talented pitchers.

Veteranosity has a place in building the team spirit.  But better talent goes further in general.  Can the better talent still have a strong team spirit?  I think they'll be fine.  Especially if they're winning!

[wildcard]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He threw more than that.  He had rehab assignments, side sessions, etc…remember, he would have his rehab start and then go throw more pitches after that.

He should be able to get to 125-130 or so innings next year.

Hall just threw 60 or so more innings in 2022 than he did in 2021 and GRod didnt have an arm issue and is a big guy. 

Arm or lat injury means he can't pitch.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Arm or lat injury means he can't pitch.

Arm injuries are more worrisome when talking about workload the next year, especially if it’s not the grade 3 Lat injury that requires surgery. 

Again, Hall went more than 20-30 innings, like you are suggesting.

No reason GRod can’t do the same thing.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Sports Guy

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Arm injuries are more worrisome when talking about workload the next year, especially if it’s not the grade 3 Lat injury that requires surgery. 

Again, Hall went more than 20-30 innings, like you are suggesting.

No reason GRod can’t do the same thing.

Sure they could.  But the risk of injury increases.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Sure they could.  But the risk of injury increases.

Have any evidence of that?

Did Hall get hurt?

[wildcard]

15 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Have any evidence of that?

Did Hall get hurt?

Increase risk on injury does not mean everyone gets hurt.

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Increase risk on injury does not mean everyone gets hurt.

Where’s your evidence that there is an increased risk?  

[Frobby]

47 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Tyler Wells pitched  57 inning in 2021.   There was concern about pitching him more than 90 innings.  He broke at 94 innings.

Grayson pitched 75.2 innings in 2022.  He went down with an lat injury.  Next year pressing him past 106 innings has its risks.  It could happen again.

It could, or maybe it won’t.  There’s a million theories on this.  Put it this way: Nobody in pro baseball pitched as many as 85 innings in 2020, and yet 93 pitchers exceeded 115 innings in 2021.   Every one of them exceeded 2020 by more than 30 innings.   Some exceeded 2020 by more than 100 innings.  So, the whole “30 innings” thing is an artifice.  It depends on circumstances.  

Now in Grayson’s case, I’m sure they’ll have some target.  I have no idea what that target will be.  And, it couid be a hard cap or it could be flexible. 

Then there’s the factor of how well he pitches.  He doesn’t pitch well, maybe he throws 90 innings in his first 20 starts.  He throws well, and maybe it’s 110 innings in his first 20 starts.  That’s a big difference and it affects how long his season might go.   Also, how many pitches per inning is he throwing?  Is he actually pitching well enough in spring training to warrant a spot in the rotation?  Who are the alternatives and how are they doing?

Honestly, another question is are the O’s in the race, or aren’t they?  I hope they will be, but that’s not guaranteed.   How they treat Grayson may vary depending on how the team is doing.

So, my point is there’s a ton of variables here that can’t be known in advance, so I’m not going to worry about it now.  

 

[Just Regular]

The years Wells, Grayson and Hall all had, it feels like a nice layup for a mad scientist experiment like, "you guys are all in the rotation, but just know your starts the first month or two are going to be twice through the order and that's it".

And then Voth-Akin-Watkins are shuttle long relievers.

Hall as SP or RP to open year I think maybe flexes with if one or two SP's better than Lyles get added to the roster.   If Lyles+, Lyles+, Bradish and Kremer are the first four, it gets easier to play games with holding yearlong workload guys back early.     I don't feel the Club will bullpen Wells or Rodriguez as causally as they might Hall.

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, eddie83 said:

I’ve convinced myself Voth should be in the rotation at the start of the season and GRod in the pen. Mass chaos will ensue on social media and on message boards I’m sure. 
 

If you are limiting his innings when do you want him available? Do you want him shut down or backed off of later in year or the opposite? Dylan Bundy 2016 is an example. Do you want 2012 Strasburg? I don’t. 
 

This years playoffs are exhibit A of this philosophy.  

I think you could accomplish the same thing with less disruption if we start Grayson in the rotation with a strict pitch count. Back him up with Akin or Wells.

[eddie83]

17 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I think you could accomplish the same thing with less disruption if we start Grayson in the rotation with a strict pitch count. Back him up with Akin or Wells.

You are going to ask him to go how many innings a start? You want to carry a caddy for him? That limits your roster.