Hall of Fame 2023 ballot: J.J. Hardy

[byrdz]

“Former slugging outfielder Carlos Beltrán, who belted 435 home runs and stole 312 bases during a 20-year MLB career, appears on the ballot for the first time, as does former All-Star closer Francisco Rodríguez and his 437 career saves. Other notable first-timers are Huston Street, Matt Cain, John Lackey, R.A. Dickey, Jered Weaver, Bronson Arroyo, Jacoby Ellsbury, Andre Ethier, Mike Napoli, Jhonny Peralta, J.J. Hardy and Jayson Werth.”

https://www.mlb.com/news/2023-hall-of-fame-ballot-released

Edited November 23, 2022 by byrdz

[ChosenOne21]

I love Hardy, but he's not a Hall-of-Famer

[Sports Guy]

He probably doesn’t even get enough votes to stay on the ballot.

[Frobby]

It’s a pretty weak class.  Beltran has borderline HOF credentials but the trash can episode might be an impediment for him, especially his first time on the ballot.  K-Rod is up there in career saves but has a weaker career resume than almost all the relievers in the HOF, and had off the field issues that may alienate some voters.   Nobody else is a serious candidate.  

Personally, I’d vote for both if it weren’t for the baggage.   And I’d consider voting for them anyway.   But neither is a slam dunk for the first ballot even on their playing merits.  
 

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I love Hardy, but he's not a Hall-of-Famer

He’s in the Orioles Hall of Fame.  He’ll have to be satisfied with that.  

[ChosenOne21]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

It’s a pretty weak class.  Beltran has borderline HOF credentials but the trash can episode might be an impediment for him, especially his first time on the ballot.  K-Rod is up there in career saves but has a weaker career resume than almost all the relievers in the HOF, and had off the field issues that may alienate some voters.   Nobody else is a serious candidate.  

Personally, I’d vote for both if it weren’t for the baggage.   And I’d consider voting for them anyway.   But neither is a slam dunk for the first ballot even on their playing merits.  
 

I think Beltran deserves to be in there. 70.1 career WAR is nothing to sneeze at.

K-Rod probably not. 

[Frobby]

29 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I think Beltran deserves to be in there. 70.1 career WAR is nothing to sneeze at.

K-Rod probably not. 

I see 70 WAR as the rough dividing line for sure-fire HOF position players.  With the exception of players with baggage issues or who are not yet eligible, everyone above 76 WAR is in.  In the 70-76 range you have 23 players, and all are in except Bill Dahlen (75.2), Lou Whitaker (75.1), Rafael Palmeiro (71.9), Bobby Grich (71.1), Scott Rolen (70.1) and Beltran (70.1).   In the 64-69.9 range you have 32 players and 19 are in.  

[Brion McClanahan]

I don't see anyone making it from this class. Whitaker and Palmeiro should be in, even with the roids. So should all of the steroid era players without an asterisk.

[jamalshw]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

I see 70 WAR as the rough dividing line for sure-fire HOF position players.  With the exception of players with baggage issues or who are not yet eligible, everyone above 76 WAR is in.  In the 70-76 range you have 23 players, and all are in except Bill Dahlen (75.2), Lou Whitaker (75.1), Rafael Palmeiro (71.9), Bobby Grich (71.1), Scott Rolen (70.1) and Beltran (70.1).   In the 64-69.9 range you have 32 players and 19 are in.  

I'd make the argument that all of the guys you listed over 70 should be in the Hall though there are obvious issues with PEDs and Palmeiro. 

K-Rod is short for me, but I'd put Beltran in, but agree his Astros scandal baggage will impact him. This year's HOF class is riding on Scott Rolen, he's the only one with a legitimate chance to get elected this year though it'll be interesting to see if the committee votes anyone in. 

[yark14]

3 hours ago, Brion McClanahan said:

I don't see anyone making it from this class. Whitaker and Palmeiro should be in, even with the roids. So should all of the steroid era players without an asterisk.

I think they deserve 2 asterisks...actually make it 3.

I hope Hardy gets all the votes.

[emmett16]

I learned today that you have to be selected to be on the ballot.  Dumb me thought everyone was eligible after their 5 years.  I didn't realize how much of a tremendous honor it is to even be selected. I Imagine he will have a hard time staying on the ballot. So Congrats to JJ, one of the most fundamentally sound defenders I've ever watched play!

[ChipTait]

Just wondering if Jayson Werth goes into the HOF as an Oriole?  

[Morgan423]

23 hours ago, emmett16 said:

I learned today that you have to be selected to be on the ballot.  Dumb me thought everyone was eligible after their 5 years.  I didn't realize how much of a tremendous honor it is to even be selected. I Imagine he will have a hard time staying on the ballot. So Congrats to JJ, one of the most fundamentally sound defenders I've ever watched play!

Players have to be selected, sure, but they aren't too tough on who is allowed on the ballot.

It's more of a screening to make sure that people who technically qualify but clearly don't deserve consideration don't make it on the ballot. 

Say there's a hypothetical player who technically played in ten separate seasons as is required, but had half of them severely injury shortened to the point that he only played ten to twenty games in those years. 

This guy technically should qualify, but he doesn't really meet the spirit of what's being looked for, so they'd keep him off the ballot. 

But that's what the exclusion is all about.   No one who's had a decent career (like JJ Hardy) who otherwise meets the criteria is going to be declined a spot on the ballot, even if there is little chance of them being voted into the Hall.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Morgan423

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Morgan423 said:

Players have to be selected, sure, but they aren't too tough on who is allowed on the ballot.

It's more of a screening to make sure that people who technically qualify but clearly don't deserve consideration don't make it on the ballot. 

Say there's a hypothetical player who technically played in ten separate seasons as is required, but had half of them severely injury shortened to the point that he only played ten to twenty games in those years. 

This guy technically should qualify, but he doesn't really meet the spirit of what's being looked for, so they'd keep him off the ballot. 

But that's what the exclusion is all about.   No one who's had a decent career (like JJ Hardy) who otherwise meets the criteria is going to be declined a spot on the ballot, even if there is little chance of them being voted into the Hall.

To your point, David Segui was on the ballot in 2010.   And, he actually got one vote.  

[ChipTait]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

To your point, David Segui was on the ballot in 2010.   And, he actually got one vote.  

Good ol' Roch.  He's as solid as they come.