Contenders Rotations

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

That's fine, but Bradish showed no signs of potential improvement or an upcoming breakout last season so I'd say the odds of that happening aren't very high. Certainly not high enough to bank on it. And even if Rodriguez is the number one we're hoping he'll be it's still a pretty bad rotation. Look at the Rangers just for comparison. They have all world number one in deGrom and complemented him Heaney, J. Gray, Perez and Odorizzi. For context, if we added Gray or Heaney today they would instantly be our best pitcher (until Rodriguez proved himself). 

The Rangers?  Can Degrom pitch a full season?   When is the last time Heaney pitched a full effective season?   They have ifs too.  Degrom is a great pitcher but he also hasn’t pitched much the last 3 years.  There’s potential both ways in Texas.  I see a 50% chance for total bust.

[Tony-OH]

Gentlemen and perhaps ladies,

Let's try and take a deep breath before we post something that is going to attack the other poster personally. This includes calling people whiners or babies or whatever.

Everyone here is entitled to their opinions, but there is no need to degrade others in order to make that point. I've tried myself to do better in this arena and I'm asking everyone else to do the same.

When you start telling a group or people that their points don't matter, all you are doing is causing people to stop listening to your points. We have some very smart posters on here and while I may not agree with their points, I appreciate when they go out and try and prove them points with facts/stats.

Every single day on here I learn something new from a poster, and that's whether I agree with them or not. Some though have decided to troll their same thought in post after post, and honestly, that brings nothing to the board.

Let's remember that one, we are all Orioles fans, and wo, we are Hangouters. In my mind, that makes you the best of the best if you post here and the expectations are high that you will bring something to the board by backing your opinions up without attacking others.

I respect each and every one of you, and even the ones I have to moderate at times, so let's show that same respect to each other.

I've given one person a week suspension because he attacked a large group of fans and said their opinions are not relevant. that's not how we act here. If you want to "take someone's opinions out" then do it with facts/stats. 

There is no better Hangout smackdown then to have an opinion, back it up with facts/stats, and then drop the proverbial mic. 

In the end, enjoy the site, but let's bring down the temperature a bit.

[maybenxtyr]

39 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Can’t forget Means and Hall either. Means won’t be there early and Hall probably won’t either but they could factor into this as the season goes on and they could be better adds than anything you see at the deadline.

Means could definitely be considered a deadline addition...and hopefully a pretty good one.

[RZNJ]

Why do we dump on our own guys?   Kremer was worth 1.8 fwar last year. Andrew Heaney has topped that ONCE (2.9 in 2018).   

[Tony-OH]

34 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Last year, the team won like 20 more games than what was considered the reasonable prediction here. I'm just shocked to see all the doom and gloom because they didn't sign one of the mid tier FA available. They were never gonna be in on the cream of the crop as any real O's fan was aware. What this FO was building in the minors is finally starting to show up in Baltimore and so far what we've seen is exciting. I believe that will continue whether or not they sign someone like Ross Stripling or Chris Bassit. 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you have said here, and while there are differing levels of "doom and gloom" being discussed, I think you have to have concerns about ownership being willing to spend enough to keep up with the teams in the AL East.

The organization under Elias is on the right track from a drafting and development standpoint, but at some point you have to offset what you have with additional talent. Bassitt is the kind of pitcher the Orioles should have signed and the contract he got from the Blue Jays is something the Orioles SHOULD have been enabled to match or beat. 

While I do believe Rodriguez is going to be very good and perhaps become a TOR, I also know he's going to be on a innings limit that will make it tough for him to stay in the rotation all year, even if he stays healthy. While Kremer, Wells, Bradish, and Voth all had their moments last year, when you look at the statcast information you start to have concerns a bit about long term success in the rotation for each of them at different levels. It's not that I don't like them, but they are 4th-5th type starters on good teams, but for now, they are 3-4-5. 

I would have been very happy going into 2023 with Bassitt, Rodriguez, Gibson, Kremer and Bradish/Wells as the rotation. 

Now, we currently have Gibson, Rodriguez, Kremer, Bradish, Voth/Hall which is ok, but there a lot of unknowns here. 

I'm hoping a trade can be made for a lefty starter and outside of Rodriguez, any of the pitchers mentioned would be available (though Hall would still take a lot to get) to make that happen.

[maybenxtyr]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Why do we dump on our own guys?   Kremer was worth 1.8 fwar last year. Andrew Heaney has topped that ONCE (2.9 in 2018).   

I'm not dumping on any of them. I think Kremer and Bradish are 2 of the most important parts next season. If they can continue what they did in 22, then there's some hope.

[tabletop]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

They didn’t even want to pitch Montas in the postseason.

I will believe Severino makes it through a season healthy and gives them a full season worth of  innings and starts when I see it.

Cortes could stay good or could turn into a pumpkin.

Wow, I usually really enjoy your posts but this makes no sense at all when comparing the two rotations. Your Severino comment can be made about every non-Gibson O’s starter. The Montas comment goes for a lot of teams #4 starter. In fact, Gibson only pitched twice and one was when they were down 3 and the other when they were up by 7. “Could be good or could turn bad” is the type of analysis I’d expect some random person on Twitter to say not one of the top posters on OH.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, tabletop said:

Wow, I usually really enjoy your posts but this makes no sense at all when comparing the two rotations. Your Severino comment can be made about every non-Gibson O’s starter. The Montas comment goes for a lot of teams #4 starter. In fact, Gibson only pitched twice and one was when they were down 3 and the other when they were up by 7. “Could be good or could turn bad” is the type of analysis I’d expect some random person on Twitter to say not one of the top posters on OH.

I’m not comparing the 2 rotations. You are choosing to look at it that way. I already said the Os rotation is worse.

Im just saying I think the Yankees current rotation is ugly. I gave you the reasons why. 

Now, when they add Rodon, that changes things.

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sports Guy

[tabletop]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I’m not comparing the 2 rotations. You are choosing to look at it that way. I already said the Os rotation is worse.

Im just saying I think the Yankees current rotation is ugly. I gave you the reasons why. 

Now, when they add Rodon, that changes things.

 

The whole point of this thread is to compare the O’s rotation to other playoff contenders rotation.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, tabletop said:

The whole point of this thread is to compare the O’s rotation to other playoff contenders rotation.

Right..and I said they are the worst of them.

But I also commented on the Yankees saying I don’t like their rotation.  And btw, they don’t either, which is why they are trying to add to it.

[Just Regular]

If mega contracts need a flag in the first few years to justify themselves, is Gerrit Cole's already a failure?

If NYY lands Rodon for more than the $216mm Cole still owed, that might be fun.     Typing it out, NYY doing the Scherzer-Verlander even Steven thing I could see as a goal for them in the negotiation.

[eddie83]

23 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

If mega contracts need a flag in the first few years to justify themselves, is Gerrit Cole's already a failure?

If NYY lands Rodon for more than the $216mm Cole still owed, that might be fun.     Typing it out, NYY doing the Scherzer-Verlander even Steven thing I could see as a goal for them in the negotiation.

I do think the Yankees window -by their standards- is closing some. Even if Volpe pops they have a ton of age on that team. Will need to mix in some young talent and now have legit money tied up long term. Cashman found some undervalued assets like Hicks, Gregorius, Voit, Urshela etc when Judge/Sanchez/Severino/Gleyber we’re arriving. 
 

We all know what George will do. Hal is not George but I think they get Rodon. Has been since 09 for Yanks WS title. 

[Yardball85]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't disagree with a lot of what you have said here, and while there are differing levels of "doom and gloom" being discussed, I think you have to have concerns about ownership being willing to spend enough to keep up with the teams in the AL East.

The organization under Elias is on the right track from a drafting and development standpoint, but at some point you have to offset what you have with additional talent. Bassitt is the kind of pitcher the Orioles should have signed and the contract he got from the Blue Jays is something the Orioles SHOULD have been enabled to match or beat. 

While I do believe Rodriguez is going to be very good and perhaps become a TOR, I also know he's going to be on a innings limit that will make it tough for him to stay in the rotation all year, even if he stays healthy. While Kremer, Wells, Bradish, and Voth all had their moments last year, when you look at the statcast information you start to have concerns a bit about long term success in the rotation for each of them at different levels. It's not that I don't like them, but they are 4th-5th type starters on good teams, but for now, they are 3-4-5. 

I would have been very happy going into 2023 with Bassitt, Rodriguez, Gibson, Kremer and Bradish/Wells as the rotation. 

Now, we currently have Gibson, Rodriguez, Kremer, Bradish, Voth/Hall which is ok, but there a lot of unknowns here. 

I'm hoping a trade can be made for a lefty starter and outside of Rodriguez, any of the pitchers mentioned would be available (though Hall would still take a lot to get) to make that happen.

Right.

The goal always has been-or should be-to have home grown players and supplement the team with free agency and trades once the team was ready to compete.  The team is ready to compete, and the Orioles should be adding players to fill the final holes.  It is frustrating that they do not seem motivated to do that. 

[E-D-D-I-E]

2 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Obviously pitcher injuries will affect this list next year, but there’s no disagreeing that on paper the Orioles starting rotation is lagging behind likely AL playoff contenders. 

Adding one good #2 or #3 starter would go a long way into boosting the Orioles playoff chances. Doesn’t seem like we’re getting one at least for now.

Hoping this is the last off-season where ownership is a hindrance to acquiring free agent talent to the organization. 

 

 

Not to pick on you Osfan but haven't we all hypothesized enough that ownership is why we aren't signing players? That message is getting old. We have no information let alone proof, that this is true. 

[E-D-D-I-E]

2 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Obviously pitcher injuries will affect this list next year, but there’s no disagreeing that on paper the Orioles starting rotation is lagging behind likely AL playoff contenders. 

Adding one good #2 or #3 starter would go a long way into boosting the Orioles playoff chances. Doesn’t seem like we’re getting one at least for now.

Hoping this is the last off-season where ownership is a hindrance to acquiring free agent talent to the organization. 

 

 

Not to pick on you Osfan but haven't we all hypothesized enough that ownership is why we aren't signing players? That message is getting old. We have no information let alone proof, that this is true.