Orioles pursuing Wacha?

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

The line in question was clearly not a joke.

You just didn't want to admit you failed to understand what I said so you knowingly falsely claim it was a joke to try and shift the blame for your misunderstanding instead of just admit you made a mistake.  Instead it's my fault you "didn't get the joke"

Kinda sad you won't even own up to something that insignificant.

I think I admitted that I didn't get it.   I obviously know what antithesis means if you read my original post.

Owning up to something?    That is the ultimate irony to have YOU be the one to throw that at me.    The Pivot King.

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

They tore the team down.  They built an A+ farm system.   They put together a young team that surprised last year with 83 wins.  They've done things the right way as far as the farm system and infrastructure for procuring and developing talent goes.   They seem genuinely interested in building something that will last.   Yep.   I give them the benefit of the doubt.

Understood. But given the org’s history do you understand why some fans maybe more cynical, skeptical, and not willing to trust them as much as you?

[RZNJ]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

Understood. But given the org’s history do you understand why some fans maybe more cynical, skeptical, and not willing to trust them as much as you?

There's trust.  There's cautious optimism.  There's cynicism.   There's questioning.   Then there is ranting on and on.   I feel like after a week of reading about 10-20 posters with the same old sarcasm and rants, I, personally, find it very irritating.   And yes, it feels like whining to me.   That's my opinion.   I'm not saying your a bad fan or a bad guy but where is all of this venting getting you?   Do you feel better?

 

[deward]

14 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

With ZERO acquisitions this team would be fun to root for and watch next year.   I realize that's not enough for you and many others.   You demand a championship caliber team.   Hey!  Wouldn't we all like that?

Isn't that the goal?

Last year was a nice surprise and they were fun to root for. Bringing back the same team would bring back the same obvious flaws and strong potential for regression among the pitchers. Perhaps last year was ahead of Elias' schedule, but I don't want to see things stall for a year through inaction. I'm not deeming the off-season a failure yet, there is obviously time to work with, but opportunities have been missed, which I find frustrating. If you're happy with the current state of things, then be happy, I'm not telling anyone what to do.

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

The fact that the team won 83 games last year in the toughest division in baseball, and has the best farm system in MLB?

Honestly, I’m extremely confident in their competence.   I’m less confident in their willingness to spend money.  But given the good position they’ve put the team in, yes they will get the benefit of the doubt from me.

The facts that you state in your first paragraph are inarguable. But IMO they also point to why they should have spent real money this offseason.

I guess my greatest concern with their willingness to take the “Tampa approach” is the risk in alienating the fanbase. And what would motivate them to do that after all the momentum of last year’s surprise season?

Another thing about the spending aspect of things that I’m concerned about is that there are only so many avenues to talent acquisition. And when you decide to willing forfeit one, to me it is much more harmful than helpful. If they plan to take a dogmatic approach that says we will punt on free agency no matter what, IMO that is almost as bad (or maybe just as bad or worse) as when they didn’t spend on international talent acquisitions. 
 

With this org it’s like two steps forward, one step back. Why can’t they do the right thing by checking ALL of the boxes like other great orgs in baseball.

This offseason was supposed to be fun, exciting, and synergizing. Why can’t we ever have nice things as O’s fans?

Not looking for you to answer the answers to all of this…lol Just venting. I’m very frustrated and disappointed in the Orioles because I feel like they’re messing it up again.

[RZNJ]

Just now, deward said:

Isn't that the goal?

Last year was a nice surprise and they were fun to root for. Bringing back the same team would bring back the same obvious flaws and strong potential for regression among the pitchers. Perhaps last year was ahead of Elias' schedule, but I don't want to see things stall for a year through inaction. I'm not deeming the off-season a failure yet, there is obviously time to work with, but opportunities have been missed, which I find frustrating. If you're happy with the current state of things, then be happy, I'm not telling anyone what to do.

I would be very happy with a team that continued to have a top farm system, continued to hopefully build a strong Latin pipeline, continued to supply the ML team with talent, had a "chance" to contend each season, with a "chance" to win the big one.   Did I enjoy the 1973-1978 Orioles?   I loved them.   The didn't win one WS in that time or even play in one.   They got bounced by the A's in 73 and 74.   They didn't even make the playoffs the next 4 years.   I was proud of those teams and enjoyed them.   Did I want them to win a WS every year?  Of course.     

 

[Bemorewins]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

There's trust.  There's cautious optimism.  There's cynicism.   There's questioning.   Then there is ranting on and on.   I feel like after a week of reading about 10-20 posters with the same old sarcasm and rants, I, personally, find it very irritating.   And yes, it feels like whining to me.   That's my opinion.   I'm not saying your a bad fan or a bad guy but where is all of this venting getting you?   Do you feel better?

 

This is my first week ever being this harsh with any critique. 
 

Before the Winter Meetings, I was filled with excitement and enthusiasm. And ready to purchase season tickets.

I know my ranting is getting me nowhere as I know the Orioles don’t care/don’t listen to their fans.

But it really stings to see us (the Orioles) self sabotage like this.

I legitimately thought that we were headed for a dynasty of competing for pennants beginning next season. I was SUPER excited! 
 

Now I’m left with the feeling of “why can’t we ever have nice things as O’s fans”? Why do they always have to find a way to screw it up? 
 

Verlander plus one impactful starter or bat could have had us in the conversation of being major contenders. Now we are stuck with relying on hope and overperformance.

I just don’t understand.

[Roll Tide]

 

[Yardball85]

15 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

 

Why can't they just spend a little more on a BETTER PITCHER?  It's not like their payroll is even remotely close to league average.   This should not be so difficult. 

[Yardball85]

17 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

This is my first week ever being this harsh with any critique. 
 

Before the Winter Meetings, I was filled with excitement and enthusiasm. And ready to purchase season tickets.

I know my ranting is getting me nowhere as I know the Orioles don’t care/don’t listen to their fans.

But it really stings to see us (the Orioles) self sabotage like this.

I legitimately thought that we were headed for a dynasty of competing for pennants beginning next season. I was SUPER excited! 
 

Now I’m left with the feeling of “why can’t we ever have nice things as O’s fans”? Why do they always have to find a way to screw it up? 
 

Verlander plus one impactful starter or bat could have had us in the conversation of being major contenders. Now we are stuck with relying on hope and overperformance.

I just don’t understand.

I share your frustration.  I think two things can be true at one time: Elias has done a great job building the farm and building this team into a contender, and ownership has done a piss poor, pathetic job at giving Elias the rope to supplement the major league roster via free agency.  

The Angelos sons really seem to be a chip off the old, cheap, block. 

[Aristotelian]

8 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

I share your frustration.  I think two things can be true at one time: Elias has done a great job building the farm and building this team into a contender, and ownership has done a piss poor, pathetic job at giving Elias the rope to supplement the major league roster via free agency.  

The Angelos sons really seem to be a chip off the old, cheap, block. 

Angelos has been a terrible owner but I don't think "cheap" is fair. He has spent plenty of money, maybe not to the extent of the Yankees but there have been plenty of times we have been at or above the league average. The problem is most of the spending has been on players like Davis and Ubaldo, and by and large the contracts haven't produced. The ultra low pay roll model is a new thing that has happened completely under John. 

[Frobby]

33 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

The facts that you state in your first paragraph are inarguable. But IMO they also point to why they should have spent real money this offseason.

I guess my greatest concern with their willingness to take the “Tampa approach” is the risk in alienating the fanbase. And what would motivate them to do that after all the momentum of last year’s surprise season?

Another thing about the spending aspect of things that I’m concerned about is that there are only so many avenues to talent acquisition. And when you decide to willing forfeit one, to me it is much more harmful than helpful. If they plan to take a dogmatic approach that says we will punt on free agency no matter what, IMO that is almost as bad (or maybe just as bad or worse) as when they didn’t spend on international talent acquisitions. 
 

With this org it’s like two steps forward, one step back. Why can’t they do the right thing by checking ALL of the boxes like other great orgs in baseball.

This offseason was supposed to be fun, exciting, and synergizing. Why can’t we ever have nice things as O’s fans?

Not looking for you to answer the answers to all of this…lol Just venting. I’m very frustrated and disappointed in the Orioles because I feel like they’re messing it up again.

Let me be clear: I’m not very happy with how the offseason has gone so far.  I was just responding to a specific point about competence.   I’m pretty much holding my fire on evaluating the offseason until it’s over.  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Angelos has been a terrible owner but I don't think "cheap" is fair. He has spent plenty of money, maybe not to the extent of the Yankees but there have been plenty of times we have been at or above the league average. The problem is most of the spending has been on players like Davis and Ubaldo, and by and large the contracts haven't produced. The ultra low pay roll model is a new thing that has happened completely under John. 

He mostly spent.

Not wisely or well but the ML team was adequately funded most years.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Let me be clear: I’m not very happy with how the offseason has gone so far.  I was just responding to a specific point about competence.   I’m pretty much holding my fire on evaluating the offseason until it’s over.  

I respect that.

[Three Run Homer]

48 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

There's trust.  There's cautious optimism.  There's cynicism.   There's questioning.   Then there is ranting on and on.   I feel like after a week of reading about 10-20 posters with the same old sarcasm and rants, I, personally, find it very irritating.   And yes, it feels like whining to me.   That's my opinion.   I'm not saying your a bad fan or a bad guy but where is all of this venting getting you?   Do you feel better?

 

Why can't you (and others, not just you) just state your opinions and where you disagree without tearing down other posters?  I'm not bothered reading the opinions of others who I disagree with, but I don't like the name calling (pollyanna this, whiner that).