Orioles sign Adam Frazier

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, wildcard said:

In spite of Elias repeatedly saying he think the O's will be a playoff team next season.

How could he not?

Do you think Elias could, coming off of last season, just blithely declare that he wasn't trying to build a playoff team this year?

[Ripken]

20 minutes ago, wildcard said:

No we all do not agree with that.  Not if he is to platoon his Hays in the OF until Cowser is ready.

If he needed an OF, he should have signed an OF.

[owknows]

33 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

You might be right. There is a case for him, which isn’t really that strong, and against him. Either might be right. Elias has the data and the video at his fingertips. He trusts his people to make these evaluations. No such thing as a bad one year contract, at least that is what GM’s are famous for saying.

Man, I don’t know what’s going to happen. But there is case both ways. If someone was expecting Xander Bogaerts to come here for $8 million, that’s delusional. But, if Adam Frazier can get back to doing what he did in 2019-2021, it might just pay off. I cannot see him playing 156 games again, like he did for the Mariners in their playoff run. Maybe 140 ish…

I'm not suggesting a surprising positive result from Frazier is even that far-fetched....  just that I think the odds of a good result... let's say +2WAR from the position are better with any of Urias, Westburg, or Ortiz.

And that the choice of Frazier impedes finding the answer to that question... and delays knowing with greater comfort which middle infielder(s) to trade.

Because you're going to have to trade some....

[Aristotelian]

43 minutes ago, wildcard said:

No we all do not agree with that.  Not if he is to platoon his Hays in the OF until Cowser is ready.

We already have Stowers for that. And Vavra. I have to think a trade is coming.

[wildcard]

58 minutes ago, Ripken said:

If he needed an OF, he should have signed an OF.

Who?

[RZNJ]

22 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Who?

Joey Gallo.

[Ripken]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Who?

There are/were some available, to say nothing of Stowers and Vavra already being here.  You want a more definitive answer, I'd need to have the first clue of what Elias is trying to accomplish this off season since he isn't improving the roster.  My choice on a short term, lefthanded OF would be 1/20 for Conforto, but Mike isn't spending much so it's hard to say.  If you wanted a light hitting lefty, who actually can play OF for under $10M, Kiermaier was available.  There were others, like Profar.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Ripken

[wildcard]

IMO the outfield is  LF - Hays/Frazier,  CF Mullins/McKenna,  RF/DH Stowers/Santander.     Adley  and  Westburg get some DH time also.

During the season Cowser gets promoted and Santander is traded while he is at his peak value two 2nd half pennant races from free agency. 

Because Hays does not hit righties that well there is room for Frazier early in the season.  Hays is also injury prone.  But Frazier is on a one year contract so he may be traded at the deadline also.

The trades of Santander and Frazier are focused on re-enforcing the farm system just like the trades of Mancini and Lopez were last season.

The system is to trade the guys as they get close to free agency and replace them with graduating rookies.

The Fraziers and Gibsons of the world are stop gap fill ins. 

The same thing is happening on the starting staff.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by wildcard

[terpoh]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

IMO the outfield is  LF - Hays/Frazier,  CF Mullins/McKenna,  RF/DH Stowers/Santander.     Adley  and  Westburg get some DH time also.

During the season Cowser gets promoted and Santander is traded while he is at his peak value two 2nd half pennant races from free agency. 

Because Hays does not hit righties that well there is room for Frazier early in the season.  Hays is also injury prone.  But Frazier is on a one year contract so he may be traded at the deadline also.

The trades of Santander and Frazier are focused on re-enforcing the farm system just like the trades of Mancini and Lopez were last season.

The system is to trade the guys as they get close to free agency and replace them with graduating rookies.

The Fraziers and Gibsons of the world are stop gap fill ins. 

The same thing is happening on the starting staff.

 

 

If we were in the race and Santander was at peak value it would be a little head scratching to trade him unless Stowers and Cowser are just raking as well.

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

IMO the outfield is  LF - Hays/Frazier,  CF Mullins/McKenna,  RF/DH Stowers/Santander.     Adley  and  Westburg get some DH time also.

During the season Cowser gets promoted and Santander is traded while he is at his peak value two 2nd half pennant races from free agency. 

Because Hays does not hit righties that well there is room for Frazier early in the season.  Hays is also injury prone.  But Frazier is on a one year contract so he may be traded at the deadline also.

The trades of Santander and Frazier are focused on re-enforcing the farm system just like the trades of Mancini and Lopez were last season.

The system is to trade the guys as they get close to free agency and replace them with graduating rookies.

The Fraziers and Gibsons of the world are stop gap fill ins. 

The same thing is happening on the starting staff.

 

 

So you agree there are trades coming. Frazier can also be stopgap should there be a Urias or Mateo trade. I don't see why we need to wait for the season for any of these trades to happen. I don't see any of Santander, Hays, Mateo or Urias values going up except maybe Hays if he looks healthy. Lots of scenarios for Frazier to help but I think trades can and should come sooner. 

Hays does not have big splits. Problem is he is not a great hitter period. Frazier could get some ABs in OF because he can hit RHP but I would not pencil him in there until we see if anything happens with Urias. If Urias can be part of a package that gets us a starter then Frazier has most value at 2B until a prospect is ready. 

I think there are lots of scenarios for Frazier to help us but most rely on someone getting traded or injured. He doesn't fill a glaring immediate need so I see why people are bummed seeing $8M going to 1-2 WAR utility guy instead of a better pitcher.

 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

17 hours ago, wildcard said:

In spite of Elias repeatedly saying he think the O's will be a playoff team next season.

Actions speak louder than words.

[wildcard]

Been looking at Frazier's speed.  I have to agree with Tony.  Pretty slow for an O's leftifelder in  Camden.   

Edited December 18, 2022 by wildcard

[Going Underground]

Brantley back to the Astros,$12 mm.

[Tony-OH]

On 12/17/2022 at 2:12 PM, Jammer7 said:

Prospects fail much more than they succeed. When you have them, you know them best if your coaching staff and scouts are as good as you think they are. When you play them to see if they can make those adjustments, and they fail, are they as valuable in trades as they were?  I don’t believe so. 

So, why add Frazier on a one year deal? Because prospects fail and injuries happen. They have made it clear they want to compete for playoff spots. They don’t have the resources to make huge elite multi-year purchases in the FA market. Frazier is a proven Major League player, a veteran who will have an impact on how the young guys are used, yes. But he will also provide more of the leadership to the young infielders. He will help them develop. He will make frequent contact and get on base in front of Adley, Gunnar, Mountcastle and Santander. He is a little more than insurance against the failure of Stowers, Vavra, Westburg, Ortiz and so on.

According to MASN article announcing his signing, “According to Statcast, he ranked in the top five percent of MLB in strikeout rate (12.1%) and whiff rate (14.4%).”

They want to win more games and keep improving. Frazier’s defense is considered above average as well. This is a big value to the development of young pitchers. If Vavra could play 2B at that level, I doubt Frazier would have been signed. They need a guy who reliably makes plays there. One who turns outs into outs.

Elias could have gone with the rookies only. He would have been criticized by the same posters who are criticizing this move for not picking up a veteran if the rookies struggle. You cannot please everyone. Some, you can never please. It would have been a defensible position for the reasons you stated. Elias and Hyde want a more proven commodity for now, and I think it has a lot to do with the defense helping the young pitchers get out of innings. You aren’t wrong, and neither are they. Two different ways of going about it. We’ll see who was right. 

No offense, you should send this to MASN and see if you can write for them. There is enough fluff in this post to make the biggest fanboys and girls proud. 

If you think they made it clear "they want go for the playoffs" and thats signing Frazier does that because "Frazier is a proven Major League player, a veteran who will have an impact on how the young guys are used, yes. But he will also provide more of the leadership to the young infielders. He will help them develop."

That veteranosity better be pretty strong to overcome every  his lack of bat and speed. And I'm sure the young guys that he's now blocked will just enjoy soaking up his knowledge while they are in AAA.

How did that veteranosity help the Orioles last year as Odor, Chirinos and Aguilar failed over and over. Now we get veteranosity Frazier!! Print those playoof tickets.

[Jammer7]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

No offense, you should send this to MASN and see if you can write for them. There is enough fluff in this post to make the biggest fanboys and girls proud. 

If you think they made it clear "they want go for the playoffs" and thats signing Frazier does that because "Frazier is a proven Major League player, a veteran who will have an impact on how the young guys are used, yes. But he will also provide more of the leadership to the young infielders. He will help them develop."

That veteranosity better be pretty strong to overcome every  his lack of bat and speed. And I'm sure the young guys that he's now blocked will just enjoy soaking up his knowledge while they are in AAA.

How did that veteranosity help the Orioles last year as Odor, Chirinos and Aguilar failed over and over. Now we get veteranosity Frazier!! Print those playoof tickets.

All I will say further is, let’s let it play out. I do not think this is some kind of great sign. It has potential to go either way. And the veteranosity gained 31 games in the win column and helped Mateo become an excellent defensive SS. But whatever, you see it differently. Carry on.

I am not going to get into this frenzy with you knuckleheads. Merry Christmas! 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Jammer7