Prepare yourselves for Hosmer

[ScGO's]

Its about adding WAR. There is a lot of Frazier bashing, but watch him get 2 WAR. He doesn't K a lot, he is better defensively than Vavra. I think if Hosmer is sigend, Vavra goes to AAA or is part of a trade

I think Hosmer fits in well on this roster the more I look into it. He's probably a solid 1 WAR DH/1B. I like a deep bench. Our 13 position players would provide a lot of versatility, quality depth, and should provide positive WAR.

Remember we did give 472 PAs to Odor (-.4 WAR), 220 PAs to Chirinos (.1 WAR), 184 PAs to Tyler Nevin (-.4), 68 PAs to Chris Owings (-.5 WAR), 51 PAs to Jesus Aguilar (-.3 WAR), and 59 PAs to Anthony Bemboom (-.3 WAR). Also can't imagine the combined WAR for the 130+ PAs we collectively gave to Richie Martin, Kelvin Gutierrez, Jonathan Aruaz, Brett Phillips, Rylan Bannon, DJ Steward, and Yusniel Diaz.

All these players combined accounted for 1185 PAs

With the depth we have now, players like the above may never reach our roster again. Below is a quick depth chart after a Hosmer signing.

C- Rutchman, McCann

1B- Mountcastle, Hosmer

2B- Urias, Frazier

3B- Henderson, Urias

SS- Mateo, Henderson

LF- Hays, Frazier

CF- Mullins, McKenna

RF- Santander, Stowers

DH- Hosmer, Santander, Rutchman

[Hazmat]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

I know Hosmer is probably better but I think I'd rather have Lewin Diaz.

Yes, totally agree.  If they are truly interested in Hosmer, why not just give Diaz the roster spot?  More upside at this point.

[owknows]

23 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Its about adding WAR. There is a lot of Frazier bashing, but watch him get 2 WAR. He doesn't K a lot, he is better defensively than Vavra. I think if Hosmer is sigend, Vavra goes to AAA or is part of a trade

I think Hosmer fits in well on this roster the more I look into it. He's probably a solid 1 WAR DH/1B. I like a deep bench. Our 13 position players would provide a lot of versatility, quality depth, and should provide positive WAR.

Remember we did give 472 PAs to Odor (-.4 WAR), 220 PAs to Chirinos (.1 WAR), 184 PAs to Tyler Nevin (-.4), 68 PAs to Chris Owings (-.5 WAR), 51 PAs to Jesus Aguilar (-.3 WAR), and 59 PAs to Anthony Bemboom (-.3 WAR). Also can't imagine the combined WAR for the 130+ PAs we collectively gave to Richie Martin, Kelvin Gutierrez, Jonathan Aruaz, Brett Phillips, Rylan Bannon, DJ Steward, and Yusniel Diaz.

All these players combined accounted for 1185 PAs

With the depth we have now, players like the above may never reach our roster again. Below is a quick depth chart after a Hosmer signing.

C- Rutchman, McCann

1B- Mountcastle, Hosmer

2B- Urias, Frazier

3B- Henderson, Urias

SS- Mateo, Henderson

LF- Hays, Frazier

CF- Mullins, McKenna

RF- Santander, Stowers

DH- Hosmer, Santander, Rutchman

It's not out of the realm of possibility that Frazier could add 2 WAR to this club.

The question is whether the 2 WAR he adds could not have been added by some combination of Vavra, Westburg, Mateo, Urias, and Ortiz, and at the same time contributed to their development without costing the team ANYTHING.

[Yardball85]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

It's not out of the realm of possibility that Frazier could add 2 WAR to this club.

The question is whether the 2 WAR he adds could not have been added by some combination of Vavra, Westburg, Mateo, Urias, and Ortiz, and at the same time contributed to their development without costing the team ANYTHING.

We get it.  You want the Orioles payroll to be as close to $0 as possible to the Angeloses can keep all the money.  

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, owknows said:

It's not out of the realm of possibility that Frazier could add 2 WAR to this club.

The question is whether the 2 WAR he adds could not have been added by some combination of Vavra, Westburg, Mateo, Urias, and Ortiz, and at the same time contributed to their development without costing the team ANYTHING.

 

1 minute ago, Yardball85 said:

We get it.  You want the Orioles payroll to be as close to $0 as possible to the Angeloses can keep all the money.  

It should have said sliding that 8 million toward a pitcher who's pretty good instead.

[Yardball85]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

It should have said sliding that 8 million toward a pitcher who's pretty good instead.

Would have been nice to put that money towards an Eovaldi or Bassitt.  But for some reason, the Orioles were unable to sign players at a position of need and, instead, spent $8M on their fourth second baseman. 

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

It's not out of the realm of possibility that Frazier could add 2 WAR to this club.

The question is whether the 2 WAR he adds could not have been added by some combination of Vavra, Westburg, Mateo, Urias, and Ortiz, and at the same time contributed to their development without costing the team ANYTHING.

Right.  This is where the disconnect is.   Elias seems to say he doesn't want to block his prospects and that the future of this team depends on the talent pipeline coming through the system.   His moves seem to block Westburg and Ortiz and also don't give Stowers a clear path to everyday AB's.   Westburg was our minor league player of the year.   He certainly looks like he's ready, statistically.   He got plenty of AAA AB's and finished strong.    Do they feel he's not ready?   Ortiz looks very close to fully baked as well with Norby not far behind.    

My first though when Frazier was signed was that Urias would be traded and Westburg would move around the infield and share time with the veteran at 2B.    My thought now is maybe Mateo goes, with Urias at 3B and Henderson at SS and Frazier at 2B with Westburg getting plenty of AB's between all three spots and maybe DH/1B as well.

BUT, if no one gets traded, I don't see how Westburg even makes the team.   In that case, it seems like they do not feel he is fully baked which is hard to fathom.   Does Elias want to create a bottleneck between Norfolk and Baltimore where the AAA guys look too good to be in AAA but there's no room in Baltimore and he's forced to trade someone?   Got me.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Right.  This is where the disconnect is.   Elias seems to say he doesn't want to block his prospects and that the future of this team depends on the talent pipeline coming through the system.   His moves seem to block Westburg and Ortiz and also don't give Stowers a clear path to everyday AB's.   Westburg was our minor league player of the year.   He certainly looks like he's ready, statistically.   He got plenty of AAA AB's and finished strong.    Do they feel he's not ready?   Ortiz looks very close to fully baked as well with Norby not far behind.    

My first though when Frazier was signed was that Urias would be traded and Westburg would move around the infield and share time with the veteran at 2B.    My thought now is maybe Mateo goes, with Urias at 3B and Henderson at SS and Frazier at 2B with Westburg getting plenty of AB's between all three spots and maybe DH/1B as well.

BUT, if no one gets traded, I don't see how Westburg even makes the team.   In that case, it seems like they do not feel he is fully baked which is hard to fathom.   Does Elias want to create a bottleneck between Norfolk and Baltimore where the AAA guys look too good to be in AAA but there's no room in Baltimore and he's forced to trade someone?   Got me.

From everything he's done I don't think Elias considers Stowers a prospect.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

Would have been nice to put that money towards an Eovaldi or Bassitt.  But for some reason, the Orioles were unable to sign players at a position of need and, instead, spent $8M on their fourth second baseman. 

If Elias trades for a pitcher that is in Eovaldi and Bassitt's class and possibly uses Mateo or Urias in the deal, would that make sense to you?

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

From everything he's done I don't think Elias considers Stowers a prospect.

You could make that case but I would argue that he's blocking Westburg and it's hard to believe he doesn't consider Westburg a prospect.

[owknows]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

From everything he's done I don't think Elias considers Stowers a prospect.

 

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

It should have said sliding that 8 million toward a pitcher who's pretty good instead.

I'd say sure... why not.

Or better yet, taking some of the emerging talent (both MiLB and MLB) currently clogging into the middle-infield funnel and packaging it for pitching with more years of control. We could have done that and STILL not needed Frazier.

We've gotta whole lot of good guys coming, and only a few MLB middle infield positions. Trading some of that talent was inevitable BEFORE we added the stale dumpster pickins. Now we'll have to trade them before we get a chance to see what they can do with the big club.

 

[orioles22]

Only way I like this is if we trade Mountcastle or Westburg, along with Stowers and Vavra for a quality, young starting pitcher

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

 

I'd say sure... why not.

Or better yet, taking some of the emerging talent (both MiLB and MLB) currently clogging into the middle-infield funnel and packaging it for pitching with more years of control. We could have done that and STILL not needed Frazier.

We've gotta whole lot of good guys coming, and only a few MLB middle infield positions. Trading some of that talent was inevitable BEFORE we added the stale dumpster pickins. Now we'll have to trade them before we get a chance to see what they can do with the big club.

 

Ok.  Here's a scenario that makes sense to me.   The Orioles are dangling Westburg as a trade piece but feel that Ortiz and Norby need more time in the minors.   Frazier is then a bridge to Ortiz/Norby or again, if Urias/Mateo go in a trade, Frazier could be the safety net/veteran babysitter that helps break Westburg into the majors.

[Yardball85]

10 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

If Elias trades for a pitcher that is in Eovaldi and Bassitt's class and possibly uses Mateo or Urias in the deal, would that make sense to you?

Sure, it would make the signing of Frazier, instead of putting that money towards an Eovaldi or Bassitt, make more sense.  Let's see if that happens. 

 

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

From everything he's done I don't think Elias considers Stowers a prospect.

That seems way premature.  He’s not a prospect at the Rutschman/Henderson level who’s going to play every day the minute he gets promoted.   But it’s not like he sat on the bench every day.  He played in 32 of the final 44 games, including 22 starts.   Remember this team has three pretty good starting outfielders.   Sure he could have played more (and should have IMO), but I’d hardly say that the O’s brass has written him off.