Grayson Rodriguez 2023

[RZNJ]

I always thought the changeup was his #2 weapon.  He threw one really good one last night to strike out Aguilar but he couldn’t locate it for the most part.  It also seems like it takes him an inning or two to get any feel for his slider.   
 

Some nitpicks.  Lead off hitter 1st inning.  2-1 count and they go with a changeup and fall behind 3-1.  I hate that decision for a pitcher who is throwing 98 against a pesky hitter with no power.

Adley loves to double up on the slider or changeup.  I love going right back to the fastball after you put the other pitch in the hitters head.  

[Sports Guy]

I’m shocked that a young pitcher who has very little pro experience has to learn how to get guys out at the ML level.

 

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m shocked that a young pitcher who has very little pro experience has to learn how to get guys out at the ML level.

 

Sure, it’s normal but it’s not normal that the guy with a supposedly plus changeup and slider and curve had not had one consistent go to pitch in his first two games.  He’s shown flashes.  The talent is no doubt.

[interloper]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m shocked that a young pitcher who has very little pro experience has to learn how to get guys out at the ML level.

 

I don't think he has to "learn" anything. He has to execute pitches. It's different. He missed Adley's target by a few feet several times. He's not trying to throw changeups and sliders in the middle of the plate 0-2, but he did. That's not because he has to learn to get big league hitters out. It's because he has to simply execute the pitch he's trying to throw, which he already knows how to do, he's just not doing it. Why? Well that's the issue - no one seems to know. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by interloper

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Sure, it’s normal but it’s not normal that the guy with a supposedly plus changeup and slider and curve had not had one consistent go to pitch in his first two games.  He’s shown flashes.  The talent is no doubt.

Someone posted the other day how Grayson changed his change up and the analytics have not been great so far on the new one. 
 

Grayson got a little too cute last night. He should’ve thrown more fastballs. Got command of that, then tried to establish an off speed pitch. That’s likely the weakest MLB lineup he’ll ever face. He’ll learn that he’s a power pitcher and not Gallardo. 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Someone posted the other day how Grayson changed his change up and the analytics have not been great so far on the new one. 
 

Grayson got a little too cute last night. He should’ve thrown more fastballs. Got command of that, then tried to establish an off speed pitch. That’s likely the weakest MLB lineup he’ll ever face. He’ll learn that he’s a power pitcher and not Gallardo. 

Yeah, and he said he was working on things in ST and look where that got him.  Just like Voth working on a sweeper when he probably had one of the best curveballs in baseball last year.    Don’t overthink it!

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, interloper said:

I don't think he has to "learn" anything. He has to execute pitches. It's different. He missed Adley's target by a few feet several times. He's not trying to throw changeups and sliders in the middle of the plate 0-2, but he did. That's not because he has to learn to get big league hitters out. It's because he has to simply execute the pitch he's trying to throw, which he already knows how to do, he's just not doing it. Why? Well that's the issue - no one seems to know. 

It’s both.  Read his comments. Learning that these guys make you pay for every mistake is part of the learning process.  Controlling your emotions, etc..it’s all part of it.

And people freaking out about it sound very ignorant.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Frobby]

33 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I always thought the changeup was his #2 weapon.  He threw one really good one last night to strike out Aguilar but he couldn’t locate it for the most part.  It also seems like it takes him an inning or two to get any feel for his slider.   
 

Some nitpicks.  Lead off hitter 1st inning.  2-1 count and they go with a changeup and fall behind 3-1.  I hate that decision for a pitcher who is throwing 98 against a pesky hitter with no power.

Adley loves to double up on the slider or changeup.  I love going right back to the fastball after you put the other pitch in the hitters head.  

Overall I felt they should have used the fastball more.  I had the sense Grayson and Adley were hellbent on establishing the slider last night because he had some much trouble throwing it in the prior game, especially early.   I think they went overboard.  Also, I wouldn’t have minded seeing the curve more last night, it was breaking nicely. Anyway, it’s a learning process.  

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Overall I felt they should have used the fastball more.  I had the sense Grayson and Adley were hellbent on establishing the slider last night because he had some much trouble throwing it in the prior game, especially early.   I think they went overboard.  Also, I wouldn’t have minded seeing the curve more last night, it was breaking nicely. Anyway, it’s a learning process.  

There probably was a more concerted effort to throw more secondary pitches to try and get them right.

This is the argument that “he should be doing that in the minors, where the games don’t count”.

I guess there is validity to it but some of those pitches may get chased by AAA hitters and if they do, what does he learn there? At least at this level, he can see what they are and aren’t doing and adjust from there.

[Ohfan67]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Overall I felt they should have used the fastball more.  I had the sense Grayson and Adley were hellbent on establishing the slider last night because he had some much trouble throwing it in the prior game, especially early.   I think they went overboard.  Also, I wouldn’t have minded seeing the curve more last night, it was breaking nicely. Anyway, it’s a learning process.  

There were a couple of sequences where he threw individual hitters four different pitches in like a six pitch at bat (according to MASN graphics during the game). He definitely didn't use the fastball at times and seemed to be trying to establish too many pitches given where he's at with his command/control. 

[Ohfan67]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

There probably was a more concerted effort to throw more secondary pitches to try and get them right.

This is the argument that “he should be doing that in the minors, where the games don’t count”.

I guess there is validity to it but some of those pitches may get chased by AAA hitters and if they do, what does he learn there? At least at this level, he can see what they are and aren’t doing and adjust from there.

I'll join the masses screaming in frustration if he's demoted while he's pitching like this. He's got to develop at the ML level at this point and he's perfectly adequate as the fifth starter on this team even if he continues to pitch like this all year. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I'll join the masses screaming in frustration if he's demoted while he's pitching like this. He's got to develop at the ML level at this point and he's perfectly adequate as the fifth starter on this team even if he continues to pitch like this all year. 

Let’s not forget, he threw 65% of his pitches for strikes last night and that number dropped a lot in that last inning once he started to tire.

On top of that, he missed bats at a high rate even with all the 2 strike and foul ball issues.

And while people want to slam on the As(for good reason), they are still professionals and sometimes they just beat you. They get paid too.

Im encouraged by what I have seen and he doesn’t seem to be the train wreck it appeared he was in ST. I would prefer to see him stay and continue to learn and develop here.  

[interloper]

When his slider and changeup do what they're supposed to do, he'll have success. He knows where to throw it, the pitches just aren't going there and/or they aren't moving like they should. It's really that simple. If he can fix whatever is causing the issue, he'll have plenty of success. 

[spleen1015]

Maybe they decided it was a good time to work on secondary pitches since he was pitching to a 'AAA' team last night. Maybe that was the plan he and the coaches came up with.

[nvpacchi]

I didn't get to watch his start, but it looks like the data is backing up that the location is meh.  First start to second start location comparison.

That changeup living up isn't too exciting.  Slider location at least looked 'decent' despite throwing a few of them up and out of the zone.

 

As we discussed last week, his changeup started to get a little more drop than where it had originally been.  Velo and movement looks good game over game.  But stuff can still only take a guy so far.  Some good things for Grayson to work on at least.

I do like the vertical ride creeping up ever so slightly start to start. 

Vertical ride = pfx_z | Horizontal ride = pfx_x

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by nvpacchi