Kyle Gibson 2023

[Hank Scorpio]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Pitched a great game. Bullpen essentially gets two days of rest now. 

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, PUNKIN PIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

[Ripken]

Well done!  He was not the starter I wanted, and I very much worried about his history of poor Aug/Sep, but he's thrown a few huge games down the stretch.

[Dunk35]

I wonder what kind of contract he's looking for next year? I'm positive he likes this clubhouse a lot. He likes Hyde. We need a 5th starter and I've seen a ton of guys worse than Kyle Gibson make starts for the Baltimore Orioles. 

[Aristotelian]

9 minutes ago, Dunk35 said:

I wonder what kind of contract he's looking for next year? I'm positive he likes this clubhouse a lot. He likes Hyde. We need a 5th starter and I've seen a ton of guys worse than Kyle Gibson make starts for the Baltimore Orioles. 

Will be very interesting to see how they approach the off-season. Gibson does seem like the ideal Elias target in that he is about as good as it gets for guys open to one year deals. Only way to do better without a long term contract is to give up prospects. Similar to Frazier, Gibson has done the job at a solidly average level while providing insurance in case the prospects don't work out.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Hank Scorpio said:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, PUNKIN PIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

Getting a game up on Tampa was the best birthday present. 

[Yossarian]

6 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Will be very interesting to see how they approach the off-season. Gibson does seem like the ideal Elias target in that he is about as good as it gets for guys open to one year deals. Only way to do better without a long term contract is to give up prospects. Similar to Frazier, Gibson has done the job at a solidly average level while providing insurance in case the prospects don't work out.

Your cost per year is lower with an aging veteran like Gibson.  Is a 1-year, $8M deal better than a 3-year, $18M deal?  A 4-yr, $16M?  I don't think the O's are in the business of signing 3 or 4 year deals with aging pitchers right now,  but it could be a way to get a guy that can eat innings for cheaper than market value. 

[banks703]

29 minutes ago, Dunk35 said:

I wonder what kind of contract he's looking for next year? I'm positive he likes this clubhouse a lot. He likes Hyde. We need a 5th starter and I've seen a ton of guys worse than Kyle Gibson make starts for the Baltimore Orioles. 

I don’t put his return out of the realm of possibilities but in my eyes they need to go after a true, legit, #1 caliber, Ace of your staff quality pitcher to go with Bradish, GrayRod, Means and Kremer. I hope that is priority number 1 this off-season. I hope that signing aging vet starters is officially a thing of the past for them. 

[accinfo]

8 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I don’t put his return out of the realm of possibilities but in my eyes they need to go after a true, legit, #1 caliber, Ace of your staff quality pitcher to go with Bradish, GrayRod, Means and Kremer. I hope that is priority number 1 this off-season. I hope that signing aging vet starters is officially a thing of the past for them. 

They will not spend the money to get that type of starter.   They may try to trade for one under a current contract but they will not bid in free agency to sign one.

[DirtyBird]

15 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I don’t put his return out of the realm of possibilities but in my eyes they need to go after a true, legit, #1 caliber, Ace of your staff quality pitcher to go with Bradish, GrayRod, Means and Kremer. I hope that is priority number 1 this off-season. I hope that signing aging vet starters is officially a thing of the past for them. 

You realize that acquiring a legit ace, better than Bradish &/or Grayson would cost Jackson Holliday, right?

[oh-wee-ohs]

Bradish and Grayson qualify as aces as far as I'm concerned. Spend money on legit bullpen help since we're likely down The Mountain next year. Wouldn't mind Kyle coming back either. He's been up and down but any and every 4/5 do the same or else they'd be 1/2. He's a good dude inside and outside the clubhouse. Maybe that also prevents us from signing the Adam Fraziers, whom I like, and lets us keep room for the baby birds next year.

[gamiliel]

9 minutes ago, oh-wee-ohs said:

Bradish and Grayson qualify as aces as far as I'm concerned. Spend money on legit bullpen help since we're likely down The Mountain next year. Wouldn't mind Kyle coming back either. He's been up and down but any and every 4/5 do the same or else they'd be 1/2. He's a good dude inside and outside the clubhouse. Maybe that also prevents us from signing the Adam Fraziers, whom I like, and lets us keep room for the baby birds next year.

Totally agree....if you spend big then go get Hader for closer.

[banks703]

4 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

You realize that acquiring a legit ace, better than Bradish &/or Grayson would cost Jackson Holliday, right?

I don’t think that is necessarily true. There is plenty of talent both at the ML level and in prospects that they could use to go after someone and there are going to be TOR starters on the market like Snell and Kershaw (though not likely to leave LA). Plus other guys who fit the bill like Nola or Duffy would be upgrades to the current staff.

Bradish and GrayRod have had nice seasons and I am super excited by their development but it’s only one year (and in GrayRod’s case it’s half a year) of top half of a rotation production. Let’s see them repeat these performances before we declare anything like it’d take Jackson Holliday to acquire someone better.

A bonafide Ace doesn’t mean that it has to be a Strider or an Alcantara. Guys like Cease, Burns or E-Rod would be major upgrades from Gibson, though I hope they don’t kick the tires on E-Rod. I look at John Means as a guy who could potentially anchor their staff next year. I want them shooting for the stars.

 

[banks703]

29 minutes ago, oh-wee-ohs said:

Bradish and Grayson qualify as aces as far as I'm concerned. Spend money on legit bullpen help since we're likely down The Mountain next year. Wouldn't mind Kyle coming back either. He's been up and down but any and every 4/5 do the same or else they'd be 1/2. He's a good dude inside and outside the clubhouse. Maybe that also prevents us from signing the Adam Fraziers, whom I like, and lets us keep room for the baby birds next year.

I am not taking anything away from what they’ve done this year and I certainly believe that they are going to continue to perform at these levels but I don’t want the O’s going into the off-season thinking that they don’t need pitching. They do. Everyone needs pitching.

With the four guys who are penciled into the staff next year it doesn’t really make sense (with the decreased payroll) to prioritize a number 4 (at best) starter.

I love the staff but I’m not silly to think that they don’t need to upgrade it and if they’re going to do so, they should be looking for a legit dude. No offense to Kyle Gibson. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by banks703

[Aristotelian]

54 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

Your cost per year is lower with an aging veteran like Gibson.  Is a 1-year, $8M deal better than a 3-year, $18M deal?  A 4-yr, $16M?  I don't think the O's are in the business of signing 3 or 4 year deals with aging pitchers right now,  but it could be a way to get a guy that can eat innings for cheaper than market value. 

That's not really how it works. Guys that command three years (at a high enough cost they want to lock in guaranteed money) are also commanding more than $4M/year. Last year I believe the lowest 3 year deal was $30M. 

Gibson is at the point in his career where no one is going to risk locking in $10M for multiple years, so his best bet is to go year to year. And that could work for a team like us that wants a decent pitcher without long term commitment.

[banks703]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

That's not really how it works. Guys that command three years (at a high enough cost they want to lock in guaranteed money) are also commanding more than $4M/year. Last year I believe the lowest 3 year deal was $30M. 

Gibson is at the point in his career where no one is going to risk locking in $10M for multiple years, so his best bet is to go year to year. And that could work for a team like us that wants a decent pitcher without long term commitment.

If they can’t upgrade Gibson’s spot in the rotation, I’d be open to bringing him back on a one-year deal to eat innings. I just really hope that they make an effort to upgrade that rotation slot.