MASN loses in NY Court of Appeals

[Beetlejuice]

On 4/25/2023 at 3:40 PM, Hallas said:

and the fee structure is such that MASN is always going to be paying an inflated price to the O's because the negotiations with the Nationals, a much larger and richer market, determines the O's rights fees.

And this is the problem with the agreement.  Pretend MASN can sublet the rights for each team, and say Comcast and Fox are both willing to pay 100M for the Nats and 10M for the Os.  One can say that establishes the FMV for the Nats at 100M and the Os at 10M.  Now the Nats will want MASN to pay them 100M, and theoretically MASN should be able to produce a product and sell it so they can pay out that 100M to the Nats.  But per the settlement agreement, the Os get what the Nats get, which is 100M.  But it’s doubtful MASN can market and sell the Os games for much more than 10M the other Networks think is FMV.  So MASN is in a 90m hole.  Now the amounts I picked here are wildly apart, but I picked them to point out the absurdity of the agreement.  It would be all too easy for MASN to implode.

[eddie83]

MASN dispute aside I think on some levels the future of broadcasts is going backwards. The Phoenix Suns are going to air games on local channels. The NBA next media rights look like they want more games OTA- over the air. 
 

When it’s all settled it may be what’s best for fans and the teams in terms of eyeballs. The teams will have to accept less money for more exposure. I still think we will have RSN’s on some level, not sure how but will also have local channels and streaming options. Just going to take some time to sort through all of it. 

[Beetlejuice]

On 4/25/2023 at 5:28 PM, Frobby said:

and the RSDC has established what it’s methodology will be for determining the fair market value of the rights fees.  Now that the court has shown it won’t second guess that judgment, there’s no reason for the RSDC to change the methodology they came up with.

IIRC the settlement agreement used the phrase 'established methodology' for determining FMV.  And there was plenty of speculation what this meant both in motions and rampant speculation here and elsewhere on the interwebs.  It’s Boortz!  It’s Vortrz! (yes, I saw that in a few places).  In hindsight I think it’s obvious the courts didn’t want to wade into this issue, and I’m fairly certain 'established methodology' now means whatever the arbitral body says it is, provided that it is reasonable and readily defensible.  To simplify, the FMV is determined by whatever procedure the RSDC says it is,  and if they are prepared to “show their math”, then good luck to anyone who tries to challenge them on this.  It’s now probably a dead end for any party to challenge the RSDC’s fair market valuation without credible evidence of fraud/corruption.  Maybe someone tries it for poops and giggles but they might get a smack on the snoot the first time and sanctioned the next.  Furthermore, the RSDC isn’t locked in to using the same procedure every time.  As market conditions are constantly changing, they can modify their process accordingly.

What’s interesting to me is how the RSDC now calculates the third and fourth five year periods.  Each five year period’s FMV was supposed to be calculated before it started.  It’s a lot easier to calculate “value” in hindsight, because you have actual data.  You can bet each side will want to use that data when it benefits them the most, but that’s not how the contract was written.

[AnythingO's]

“This issue is assuring for the city of Baltimore, the state of Maryland and the Orioles that there is some permanent compensation from the league to the Orioles,” he added. “Because we’re the only team that’s had that happen to us.”

Just what is JA talking about here? The League isn't going to give either the Orioles or Baltimore anything. This is about rights fees to both teams set at a level to allow some profit for MASN. Nats want less profit since they are limited to 33% of that and higher rights fees, that are equal for both teams. The only money from the League was the money to setup MASN ($75M??).

[Beetlejuice]

7 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

This is about rights fees to both teams set at a level to allow some profit for MASN.

Is it?  Because AFAIK the settlement agreement doesn’t guarantee MASN’s profitability.  Really the only way to do so is to jigger with the rights fees.  But if the RSDC does that, are they truly determining a FMV?  I could see an owner with pockets like Steve Cohen challenging such a determination simply because he can.  Bud Selig really screwed the pooch.

[Frobby]

On 5/9/2023 at 4:17 PM, AnythingO's said:

“This issue is assuring for the city of Baltimore, the state of Maryland and the Orioles that there is some permanent compensation from the league to the Orioles,” he added. “Because we’re the only team that’s had that happen to us.”

Just what is JA talking about here? The League isn't going to give either the Orioles or Baltimore anything. This is about rights fees to both teams set at a level to allow some profit for MASN. Nats want less profit since they are limited to 33% of that and higher rights fees, that are equal for both teams. The only money from the League was the money to setup MASN ($75M??).

What is this quote from?

In essence, the league gave the Orioles the permanent right to earn some profits from Nats televised games, in perpetuity.  That’s the permanent compensation from the league, which owned the Expos/Nats when that deal was struck.   

[AnythingO's]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

What is this quote from?

In essence, the league gave the Orioles the permanent right to earn some profits from Nats televised games, in perpetuity.  That’s the permanent compensation from the league, which owned the Expos/Nats when that deal was struck.   

It's a JA quote from about a week ago. I'll find it and post a link tomorrow. I'm an older fart than you are lol. 

 

[Going Underground]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

What is this quote from?

In essence, the league gave the Orioles the permanent right to earn some profits from Nats televised games, in perpetuity.  That’s the permanent compensation from the league, which owned the Expos/Nats when that deal was struck.   

It is from a Baltimore  Banner article about what happens with the dispute now. There is a link to the article a few posts back. This is not the first time this has happened. The City of Baltimore presented a brief to the NY court saying the Orioles could not survive if they lost this case.

 

Several weeks before the decision came down, Angelos appeared on “Morning Joe” on MSNBC, where he was asked if the dispute will ever be resolved.

Angelos did not directly answer the question. He instead spoke about the intent of the settlement agreement, which was to provide financial compensation in perpetuity to the O’s for an MLB team moving in 38 miles away from Oriole Park at Camden Yards.

“So it’s really not so much a dispute between two teams,” Angelos said. “It’s just an assurance for the city of Baltimore.”

“This issue is assuring for the city of Baltimore, the state of Maryland and the Orioles that there is some permanent compensation from the league to the Orioles,” he added. “Because we’re the only team that’s had that happen to us.”

Edited May 5 by Going Underground

Edited May 14, 2023 by Going Underground

[Frobby]

Just now, Going Underground said:

Several weeks before the decision came down, Angelos appeared on “Morning Joe” on MSNBC, where he was asked if the dispute will ever be resolved.

Angelos did not directly answer the question. He instead spoke about the intent of the settlement agreement, which was to provide financial compensation in perpetuity to the O’s for an MLB team moving in 38 miles away from Oriole Park at Camden Yards.

“So it’s really not so much a dispute between two teams,” Angelos said. “It’s just an assurance for the city of Baltimore.”

“This issue is assuring for the city of Baltimore, the state of Maryland and the Orioles that there is some permanent compensation from the league to the Orioles,” he added. “Because we’re the only team that’s had that happen to us.”

Edited May 5 by Going Underground

Yeah, the last I heard, the City of Baltimore wasn’t getting a dime of compensation out of the MASN deal.  It benefits the Orioles and their owners, period.  Of course it’s a dispute between the two teams.  What pathetic PR nonsense from JA.

[Going Underground]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

Yeah, the last I heard, the City of Baltimore wasn’t getting a dime of compensation out of the MASN deal.  It benefits the Orioles and their owners, period.  Of course it’s a dispute between the two teams.  What pathetic PR nonsense from JA.

As I stated above the City of Baltimore sent a brief to the NY court stating the Orioles can't survive in Baltimore if they lost this case  So I guess they have to move. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Going Underground

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, Going Underground said:

As I stated above the City of Baltimore sent a brief to the NY court stating the Orioles can't survive in Baltimore if they lost this case  So I guess they have to move. 

Such a false and dumb argument, that has no legal relevance.  

[AnythingO's]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

What is this quote from?

In essence, the league gave the Orioles the permanent right to earn some profits from Nats televised games, in perpetuity.  That’s the permanent compensation from the league, which owned the Expos/Nats when that deal was struck.   

Here is the link for the Banner article, the JA quote is about in the middle.

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/sports/orioles-mlb/what-we-know-new-york-court-of-appeals-opinion-masn-orioles-nationals-RTJ7FEG6DBDR3HUTEQMCT6STLU/