Grayson Optioned

[now]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

O's two first rounders Hall and GRod both in the Norfolk rotation.   Both with the same problem.   Great Stuff.  Poor Command.

Daniel Cabrera, Matt Riley, Ubaldo... the list goes on. 

[vab]

I don’t know what to make of this. It’s not like this kid is someone we were looking at with orange colored glasses. He was the mlb.com number one pitching prospect and to come up and get blasted like this? I can’t ever remember this highly regarded a pitching prospect having this kind of start in the majors. We better hope he’s hiding an injury although when you’re hitting 99 on the gun I can’t imagine what type of injury he could have. 

[Sanity Check]

1 hour ago, Spy Fox said:

The O's have a better OPS vs lefties than righties (.791 vs .732) and better record vs lefty starters than righty starters (14-6 vs 19-12).

So, why are the vs lefty lineups a problem? I also want to bring up Westburg but it's just wrong to say facing lefty starters is a problem for the team right now.

Clearly a convenient gripe not supported by statistics.  

It's like saying we can't win on Sundays......and I don't know what our Sunday record is this year, but I'd probably have egg on my face if I made that claim too.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, now said:

Daniel Cabrera, Matt Riley, Ubaldo... the list goes on. 

Ubaldo doesn’t really deserve to be lumped in with the other two.  He had a very successful major league career, and the other two did not.  His BB rate (4.1), while not good, was way better than Cabrera’s (5.1) or Riley’s (6.6).   

[Sanity Check]

One thing I noticed early last night was how he lost focus in the first two innings......he got the first two guys out in both innings, and then proceeds to go I think 2-0 or 3-0 on the next batter both times, and walked them.  The second one scored on a home run, after getting behind that batter.  He's clearly not good enough yet to get behind hitters, give away free passes, and lose focus/command.

I really think he's just "throwing" right now, and doesn't have the mindset to Execute Every Pitch....not just throw it.

I agree with those who think it might be less stressful and a better learning platform doing long relief when he comes back up, or even just an inning here and there where he can be laser focused for one or two innings at a time. 

[Spy Fox]

10 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Clearly a convenient gripe not supported by statistics.  

It's like saying we can't win on Sundays......and I don't know what our Sunday record is this year, but I'd probably have egg on my face if I made that claim too.

I think the Sunday punt obsession still draws its power from the months-long losing streak we had on Sundays, but that was 15 years ago now. 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Chaka Garcia said:

You can see why Elias favors hitters in the draft. Pitching is so risky. There is a chance neither become reliable starters.

Well, he also has not been very successful at developing pitching.

Bradish is probably the best example of taking a guy with a good arm and developing him into a decent starter. Kremer probably could be in that category as well to an extent. Maybe if you want, you can add in Tyler Wells, but was basically developed at the major league level vs the system.

The Orioles do strange things in "developing" starters in that they piggy back them, bring them in relief sometimes, suddenly give them a one or two inning start, and rarely letting them go over 80 pitches in any outing.

Neither Grayson or DL Hall have developed much under them and they were the best two arms they had. The only highly paid guy they drafted and have tried to develop is Baumler and he can't stay healthy.

They have put all their eggs in the position prospect basket but won't trade any of the ones that end up with value but prefer to stack them at AAA while playing veterans at the major league level.

If you can't develop an arm like Rodriguez and Hall, you have to question your pitching development guys. 

 

 

[Tony-OH]

34 minutes ago, vab said:

I don’t know what to make of this. It’s not like this kid is someone we were looking at with orange colored glasses. He was the mlb.com number one pitching prospect and to come up and get blasted like this? I can’t ever remember this highly regarded a pitching prospect having this kind of start in the majors. We better hope he’s hiding an injury although when you’re hitting 99 on the gun I can’t imagine what type of injury he could have. 

He has "Lackofmaturityitis" to go along with his "lackofcommandofmystuffitis."

Hopefully he'll find it in AAA because no matter how anyone wants to shake it out, he was a giant disappointment through his first ten starts.

I was surprised about how bad he looked in spring training when he would let innings get out of control and clearly it's a continual problem for him.

He's just getting hit way too hard to often and I despite what the cracked reporters at the Sun reported, I don't think it has anything to do with him tipping his pitches.

[Brooks The Great]

2 hours ago, Spy Fox said:

The O's have a better OPS vs lefties than righties (.791 vs .732) and better record vs lefty starters than righty starters (14-6 vs 19-12).

So, why are the vs lefty lineups a problem? I also want to bring up Westburg but it's just wrong to say facing lefty starters is a problem for the team right now.

It's a problem because we have bad hitters at the bottom of the lineup. Just like I was saying that McKenna isn't as good as his small sample size performance reflected because he's not a good hitter, the O's performance against lefties featuring McCann, McKenna, Frazier, Mateo, etc. isn't sustainable. We need better hitters replacing those guys. 

To be a winning team - and to be a good GM, manager, etc. - you need to be proactive. You need to anticipate problems and address deficiencies before they hurt the team with losses. Reciting the statistics and simply reacting to them isn't enough. Talent evaluation and analysis of the statistics are crucial context to the results. 

You're basically saying, "The O's have performed fine against lefties, there's no problem, why fix something that isn't broken?" I'm telling you that the talent doesn't back up the results, and that we can expect the team perform worse moving forward using the same hitters against lefties. I'm telling you that complacency with the roster and lineups featuring these same players won't ensure wins and future performance. We won't know for sure until we see how the team performs, but feel free to bump this in a couple months if I'm wrong. Because I'll definitely bump it if I'm right.

McKenna, McCann, Frazier, Mateo - these guys aren't good hitters overall. Sure, they're better taking into account their strong-side splits, but that doesn't mean they should continue to get at bats at the expense of more talented prospects. Frazier has been hot, but I'm not sold on him as a good hitter overall. Prior to this season, Frazier has a long track record as league average hitter with above average defense - essentially two seasons as a well above average hitter, two seasons as a well below average hitter, and a little less than 2 and a half seasons as an average hitter. He's average. 

Just because a right-handed hitter is passable against left-handed pitching (or a lefty hitter against a righty pitcher in Frazier's case) doesn't mean that they should get at bats over a talented prospect who could potentially offer more production not only against left-handed pitching, but overall. We have three prospects who are ready to contribute to the major league team. Let's give them that chance and very likely improve the team while doing so. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Brooks The Great

[Sports Guy]

 

[Tony-OH]

BTW, it's ok to be disappointed in Grayson and not also think he's going to be a bust. Grayson has a lot of talent and I still expect him to be a part of winning teams here in Baltimore, but he also clearly needs more development mentally as well as mechanically. 

I mean, if anyone wants to think he's a bust after his first ten starts feel free, but I prefer to say he's be disappointing vs a bust.

He has a long way to go to reach bust status and that's not going to happen after one season. Not with that arm.

[Otter]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

O's two first rounders Hall and GRod both in the Norfolk rotation.   Both with the same problem.   Great Stuff.  Poor Command.

True.  But Hall also has control problems in addition to command problems, so he's got more work to do.

[Malike]

Lots of guys struggled at 23 in the MLB and went on to great success. His stuff plays and he will be fine.

[Malike]

36 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

He has "Lackofmaturityitis" to go along with his "lackofcommandofmystuffitis."

Hopefully he'll find it in AAA because no matter how anyone wants to shake it out, he was a giant disappointment through his first ten starts.

I was surprised about how bad he looked in spring training when he would let innings get out of control and clearly it's a continual problem for him.

He's just getting hit way too hard to often and I despite what the cracked reporters at the Sun reported, I don't think it has anything to do with him tipping his pitches.

I don't think he's tipping pitches, but he doesn't hide the ball in his glove well at all. You can see the grip in the glove on camera, which a batter can't, but it was pretty clear how visible it is on television.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, Malike said:

I don't think he's tipping pitches, but he doesn't hide the ball in his glove well at all. You can see the grip in the glove on camera, which a batter can't, but it was pretty clear how visible it is on television.

I noticed this last night and if we can see it then you know opposing teams are picking up on it.