Grayson Optioned

[Sports Guy]

39 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

BTW, it's ok to be disappointed in Grayson and not also think he's going to be a bust. Grayson has a lot of talent and I still expect him to be a part of winning teams here in Baltimore, but he also clearly needs more development mentally as well as mechanically. 

I mean, if anyone wants to think he's a bust after his first ten starts feel free, but I prefer to say he's be disappointing vs a bust.

He has a long way to go to reach bust status and that's not going to happen after one season. Not with that arm.

He’s already not a bust.

[Spy Fox]

37 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

It's a problem because we have bad hitters at the bottom of the lineup. Just like I was saying that McKenna isn't as good as his small sample size performance reflected because he's not a good hitter, the O's performance against lefties featuring McCann, McKenna, Frazier, Mateo, etc. isn't sustainable. We need better hitters replacing those guys. 

To be a winning team - and to be a good GM, manager, etc. - you need to be proactive. You need to anticipate problems and address deficiencies before they hurt the team with losses. Reciting the statistics and simply reacting to them isn't enough. Talent evaluation and analysis of the statistics are crucial context to the results. 

You're basically saying, "The O's have performed fine against lefties, there's no problem, why fix something that isn't broken?" I'm telling you that the talent doesn't back up the results, and that we can expect the team perform worse moving forward using the same hitters against lefties. I'm telling you that complacency with the roster and lineups featuring these same players won't ensure wins and future performance. We won't know for sure until we see how the team performs, but feel free to bump this in a couple months if I'm wrong. Because I'll definitely bump it if I'm right.

McKenna, McCann, Frazier, Mateo - these guys aren't good hitters overall. Sure, they're better taking into account their strong-side splits, but that doesn't mean they should continue to get at bats at the expense of more talented prospects. Frazier has been hot, but I'm not sold on him as a good hitter overall. Prior to this season, Frazier has a long track record as league average hitter with above average defense - essentially two seasons as a well above average hitter, two seasons as a well below average hitter, and a little less than 2 and a half seasons as an average hitter. He's average. 

Just because a right-handed hitter is passable against left-handed pitching (or a lefty hitter against a righty pitcher in Frazier's case) doesn't mean that they should get at bats over a talented prospect who could potentially offer more production not only against left-handed pitching, but overall. We have three prospects who are ready to contribute to the major league team. Let's give them that chance and very likely improve the team while doing so. 

I’m not saying not to iterate. I’d like to see both Westburg and Cowser up soon and starting often. I think we’ll see that transition in the next month or so and it’ll improve the lineup. That’s different than saying the lineup v lefties is a problem. The results say it’s a strength and I don’t think the sample is overly swayed by 35 McKenna ABs. 

[Aristotelian]

My layman's take: he has gotten by being a thrower rather than pitcher. Biggest problem is command in the zone. He doesn't hit spots and as a result gets hit hard. His FB velocity is good but it doesn't move a lot so he absolutely needs to improve his FB location and command his secondary pitches. This is a setback but not an insurmountable one. 

[foxfield]

As a layman it seems more mental. He is struggling to finish. Finish hitters, finish innings. His stuff plays. It seems physically he can do the job. Hope he gets it together soon because he is needed. 
 

 

[Billy F-Face3]

Back during Spring Training, I got laughed at in the OH Facebook for saying Grayson needed to start in the minors and spend sbout a month or 2 getting himself right. I pointed out that he wasn't the same since his injury and people laughed at me like I didn't know what I was talking about. And here we are.  People had rose tinted fan goggles on and believed the hype so much they didn't want to look at it rationally. The injury last season has altered him. He didn't pitch half the season. (Similarly, you gotta look at this and come to the conclusion that John Means will not be the same pitcher either, for having been out so long.)

That said, they didn't stick with the plan and once he was up here, I felt it was necessary to keep letting him pitch and learn from experience. The problem is, we are in contention for a playoff run and winning the division and there's very little margin for error. 

[Moose Milligan]

5 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

It stings a little bit more because it came like 3 days after the GRAYSON WAS TIPPING HIS PITCHES thread.

Maybe he still is?

[RZNJ]

15 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Maybe he still is?

 

15 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Maybe he still is?

 

15 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Maybe he still is?

Yeah, I’ve been reading his lips.  One time he said “I’m about to throw you a hanging changeup.  Be ready”!

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

 

 

Yeah, I’ve been reading his lips.  One time he said “I’m about to throw you a hanging changeup.  Be ready”!

Honestly, I don't like the way he holds the ball way out in front of himself.

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Honestly, I don't like the way he holds the ball way out in front of himself.

I don’t either but I don’t think it has much to do with anything.

[Pickles]

Just now, RZNJ said:

I don’t either but I don’t think it has much to do with anything.

I think they can see his wrist.

[RZNJ]

Just now, Pickles said:

I think they can see his wrist.

When he throws good sliders and changeups hitters are fooled.  Adolis Garcia went fishing for a slider 6 inches off the plate.  He had no idea it was a slider until it was too late.  His problems have zero to do with tipping and 100% to do with execution.

[Pickles]

Just now, RZNJ said:

When he throws good sliders and changeups hitters are fooled.  Adolis Garcia went fishing for a slider 6 inches off the plate.  He had no idea it was a slider until it was too late.  His problems have zero to do with tipping and 100% to do with execution.

Maybe.  I'm not saying you're wrong but I have my suspicions.

It's rare to see a guy with his raw stuff get hit as hard as he does.

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Maybe.  I'm not saying you're wrong but I have my suspicions.

It's rare to see a guy with his raw stuff get hit as hard as he does.

Have you seen some of the meatballs he’s been serving up?   Right now his secondaries totally suck.   

[Pickles]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Have you seen some of the meatballs he’s been serving up?   Right now his secondaries totally suck.   

It certainly is frustrating.  I support sending him down.

I think the question is really what do you do with him at AAA?

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Back during Spring Training, I got laughed at in the OH Facebook for saying Grayson needed to start in the minors and spend sbout a month or 2 getting himself right. I pointed out that he wasn't the same since his injury and people laughed at me like I didn't know what I was talking about. And here we are.  People had rose tinted fan goggles on and believed the hype so much they didn't want to look at it rationally. The injury last season has altered him. He didn't pitch half the season. (Similarly, you gotta look at this and come to the conclusion that John Means will not be the same pitcher either, for having been out so long.)

That said, they didn't stick with the plan and once he was up here, I felt it was necessary to keep letting him pitch and learn from experience. The problem is, we are in contention for a playoff run and winning the division and there's very little margin for error. 

Weird, I remember most everyone agreeing with the decision to send him down after having a horrible spring.